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[brian maddox]

In effect it creates an additional layer of "pseudo-matrixes" by allowing you to send signals from one bus to another; it also opens the door for on-console digital feedback (which is most unpleasant!).

Basically the only time I use it is when I want to send a mix of a couple of buses to a rack effect (the X32 can't feed a rack effect off a matrix): routing the buses in question back to channels allows me to feed those channels into another bus, which I can then send to the effect (although I'm betting this example didn't help your headache much).

It works for my workflow for specific kinds of shows, but it's not something I'd want to subject anyone else to (because I'm not a mean person).

-Russ

Another use for this [not so super safe] feature is if you want to make use of the automix functionality but you need it for more than 8 inputs. Since the automixer is hardwired to the first 8 inputs channels, being able to dial mixbusses into those inputs allows you to apply automixing to "subgroups". You do however need to proceed with caution....

[Dave Pluke]

Another use for this [not so super safe] feature is if you want to make use of the automix functionality but you need it for more than 8 inputs. Since the automixer is hardwired to the first 8 inputs channels, being able to dial mixbusses into those inputs allows you to apply automixing to "subgroups". You do however need to proceed with caution....

Interesting workaround.

Dave

[Mike Karseboom]

It doesn't take a whole slew of random BE's to leave the board with unwanted leftover settings. 


More than once I have created this very problem for myself when I assumed the last setup will work for the current show. Sure makes you feel dumb when you have unexpected problems!  Especially if you did some slick configuration trick that takes you a while to figure out how to undo.


One thing you probably already know but worth mentioning is to review the scene safes before recalling your base scene. Obviously what is "safed" will not be properly recalled.


AND... there are still several settings that typically don't get recalled with a scene.  For example, channels that were linked in the left over scene might not revert to mono channels in your recalled scene.  If your last show used any individual channel source overrides, those probably will remain as they were last set.
 

[Kevin Maxwell]

I am one of those people that use Mix Bus as variable groups and I also use the Matrix and DCAs. Here is a brief (for me) description of how and why. For shows that I am doing I may get a lot more complicated than the below examples. I can give more info if anyone wants.

I set up a system with an X32 in a church youth meeting room and I discovered that they couldn’t seem to cope with the proper gain on the channels and also have the L/R master needing to be down a lot below nominal as it needed to be to not be too loud. So I routed the L/R to a set of Matrix sends and put those at a lower volume. And that has worked great for them. and given them the range (sensitivity) they wanted on the L/R master.

They were an early user of the X32 and some of what I wanted to do initially I couldn’t do but then shortly after they started using the X32, Behringer came out with some firmware updates that gave me the capability that I was looking for. And at the moment I can’t remember what it was that was adding to the firmware at that time. It was long enough ago and many jobs in between. 

In another church I setup the X32 and 2 SD16 stage boxes and some P16m personal monitor mixers in their sanctuary. I didn’t spec the system I was just hired to make it all work, fun. Because you are limited to only 16 inputs into the P16m I had to use some Mix Bus sends to sub mix some channels together to fit into the P16m setup. When they started to do streaming of their services this year I used another Mix Bus send to feed a couple of Matrix sends. They didn’t need stereo for this but they needed to feed 2 sends to their streaming system. This enabled me to use a compressor on the Mix Bus send to give them a more listenable audio feed and a limiter on the Matrix sends to keep them from clipping the audio on the stream. And to set the Matrix send on the lower layer and tell them they shouldn’t need to touch this master send. 

When I set up a system I EQ the system for linearity, in other words what goes in is what comes out. I never EQ a system to a vocal mic. I feed the like vocal mics to a Mix Bus and I EQ that for gain before feedback. And I usually put other things into Mix Bus sends using them as variable sub groups. And then I route those to the Matrix. And I also take advantage of the DCAs to give me the kind of control I want during a show.

I didn’t want to make the church system that has the P16m so complicated but I had to, to make it work the way they wanted it to work. I would have speced the system differently.   

[brian maddox]

...
I set up a system with an X32 in a church youth meeting room and I discovered that they couldn’t seem to cope with the proper gain on the channels and also have the L/R master needing to be down a lot below nominal as it needed to be to not be too loud. So I routed the L/R to a set of Matrix sends and put those at a lower volume. And that has worked great for them. and given them the range (sensitivity) they wanted on the L/R master.
....

don't want to derail the thread but...

I started running my PA off of Matrixes exclusively almost 30 years ago. This was largely for flexibility with corporate events, but even when i was doing a rock show with just L/R coming out of the console, i still routed them through the Matrix and out. This meant that the visiting festival BE could walk up and bury the L/R meters in the red like he wanted to ["Dude that's rockin'] and meanwhile the matrix meters are barely moving. In all the times i've done this, i can't think of one time that a BE actually ever noticed that the Matrix was even active, and this was on an analog board where it was literally right in front of their face....

[Russell Ault]

don't want to derail the thread but... [...]

Too late.

I've spent too much time in theatre (and around DiGiCo consoles), and there some shows I don't even use the L/R bus; sometimes I'll just use it as a way to get effects returns and playback to the matrix section.

Theatre in particular has a tradition of using buses and matrixes, to the point that the de facto ultimate analogue theatre console (the CADAC J-series) didn't even have a L/R bus. DiGiCo S and SD consoles will often designate the first stereo bus as "L/R", but it's basically no different than any of the other buses, and its use is definitely optional.

-Russ

[Tim McCulloch]

don't want to derail the thread but...

I started running my PA off of Matrixes exclusively almost 30 years ago. This was largely for flexibility with corporate events, but even when i was doing a rock show with just L/R coming out of the console, i still routed them through the Matrix and out. This meant that the visiting festival BE could walk up and bury the L/R meters in the red like he wanted to ["Dude that's rockin'] and meanwhile the matrix meters are barely moving. In all the times i've done this, i can't think of one time that a BE actually ever noticed that the Matrix was even active, and this was on an analog board where it was literally right in front of their face....

For me it was a combination of gig types, but ultimately it was about having ease of control that kept all the sub-systems driven proportionately.

By extension that means the entire system has been voiced, aligned and optimized so that to the greatest extent possible, any change at the console sounds the same in each zone.  What Scovill calls "an honest system".

If your system is honest, you can assign inputs to groups, and groups to the matrices.  Leave the L/R to drive the 2 track recording for the artist or video feed.  For years I didn't understand *why* there were so many routing options in a large frame analog console and now with Modern Bit Bucket Mixing, the XL 240s, the Heritage, Series Five & Europa, PM4K, even the Paragon II...  seem quaint and limited.

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