ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Cat6a shielding connected via wall plates  (Read 675 times)

James Hampshire-Perks

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1
Cat6a shielding connected via wall plates
« on: September 13, 2020, 03:49:41 am »

Hi All,

I'm installing some cat6a lines in our venue, to be used for audio console (M32) to stage box (DL32) and any other application that requires network lines from FOH to stage.

I have thought of a potential issue with my current setup and am just seeking some advise as to whether or not problems my arise.

I have 2 cat6a lines both terminating at neutrik cta6a feedthrough connectors, these are mounted on a steel wall plate (plug box cover) both ends. Being steel this connects the shields of the two cable runs via the housing of the connectors.

So if one line was being used for FOH audio to stage box and another for lighting or a video application, their shields would be connected. This sounds like a bad thing in my brain.

Any thoughts appreciated.
Logged

Mac Kerr

  • Old enough to know better
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6885
  • Audio Plumber
Posting Rules
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2020, 06:29:35 am »

Hi All,

I'm installing some cat6a lines in our venue, to be used for audio console (M32) to stage box (DL32) and any other application that requires network lines from FOH to stage.

I have thought of a potential issue with my current setup and am just seeking some advise as to whether or not problems my arise.

I have 2 cat6a lines both terminating at neutrik cta6a feedthrough connectors, these are mounted on a steel wall plate (plug box cover) both ends. Being steel this connects the shields of the two cable runs via the housing of the connectors.

So if one line was being used for FOH audio to stage box and another for lighting or a video application, their shields would be connected. This sounds like a bad thing in my brain.

Any thoughts appreciated.

Please go to your profile and change your name to your real full name as required by the posting rules.

Mac
Admin
Logged

Erik Jerde

  • Classic LAB
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1019
Re: Cat6a shielding connected via wall plates
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2020, 08:17:59 pm »

Hi All,

I'm installing some cat6a lines in our venue, to be used for audio console (M32) to stage box (DL32) and any other application that requires network lines from FOH to stage.

I have thought of a potential issue with my current setup and am just seeking some advise as to whether or not problems my arise.

I have 2 cat6a lines both terminating at neutrik cta6a feedthrough connectors, these are mounted on a steel wall plate (plug box cover) both ends. Being steel this connects the shields of the two cable runs via the housing of the connectors.

So if one line was being used for FOH audio to stage box and another for lighting or a video application, their shields would be connected. This sounds like a bad thing in my brain.

Any thoughts appreciated.

I canít be sure without an exact part number but it looks like the cat6a products donít have the ability to defeat the panel ground connection like the D series ethercon products do.  Thatís a bummer.

Given the x/m32 ground issues and how itís becoming more common to use shielded catx for analog snakes Iíd have some concerns about common ground across systems as well.

If youíre committed to the cat6a rated connectors you could try a wrap of etape along with one of the colored plastic rings and effect a DIY isolation.

If youíre not committed to those connectors just swap for the ones with selectable panel ground bond.  If youíve got a proper cable qualifier you could even test to see what sort of actual impact it has.  It would be interesting to see the effect of the lower rated connectors in real world use vs the cat6a.
Logged

Russell Ault

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 828
  • Edmonton, AB
Re: Cat6a shielding connected via wall plates
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2020, 12:24:00 am »

If audio power uses an isolated ground in your building and other departments don't I could see the potential for ground loops if audio is using one network line and, say, lighting is using the other (since you'd basically be tying your isolated ground to the building's ground through the shields of those two Ethernet cables).

If everyone is using the same power ground then I'm not sure I see why there'd be a problem? IIRC, the AES50 shielding weirdness with the X32 platform is all about using the shell on the EtherCON connector to make sure that all the parts of the EtherCON that should be tied to ground actually are. My sense is that adding a few extra grounding points on the cable's shield shouldn't cause any (additional) problems (as long as this doesn't cause ground loops, anyway).

-Russ
Logged

Chrysander 'C.R.' Young

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 351
  • North Central FL
Re: Cat6a shielding connected via wall plates
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2020, 08:45:09 am »

Hi All,

I'm installing some cat6a lines in our venue, to be used for audio console (M32) to stage box (DL32) and any other application that requires network lines from FOH to stage.

I have thought of a potential issue with my current setup and am just seeking some advise as to whether or not problems my arise.

I have 2 cat6a lines both terminating at neutrik cta6a feedthrough connectors, these are mounted on a steel wall plate (plug box cover) both ends. Being steel this connects the shields of the two cable runs via the housing of the connectors.

So if one line was being used for FOH audio to stage box and another for lighting or a video application, their shields would be connected. This sounds like a bad thing in my brain.

Any thoughts appreciated.

Why Cat6a?  That stuff is heavier, thicker, more expensive, and harder to work with than other options and is way overkill for your needs.  For M32/X32, Cat5e with Ethercon is the right answer. 
Logged

Rob Spence

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3484
  • Boston Metro North/West
    • Lynx Audio Services
Re: Cat6a shielding connected via wall plates
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2020, 10:01:54 am »

Why Cat6a?  That stuff is heavier, thicker, more expensive, and harder to work with than other options and is way overkill for your needs.  For M32/X32, Cat5e with Ethercon is the right answer.

Well, for installs where the wires may be in place for decades, it makes sense to use a more current cable. After all, the M32 et al may not be the console in use even just a few years from now.

My $0.02
Logged
rob at lynxaudioservices dot com

Dealer for: AKG, Allen & Heath, Ashley, Astatic, Audix, Blue Microphones, CAD, Chauvet, Community, Countryman, Crown, DBX, Electro-Voice, FBT, Furman, Heil, Horizon, Intellistage, JBL, Lab Gruppen, Mid Atlantic, On Stage Stands, Pelican, Peterson Tuners, Presonus, ProCo, QSC, Radial, RCF, Sennheiser, Shure, SKB, Soundcraft, TC Electronics, Telex, Whirlwind and others

John L Nobile

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2056
Re: Cat6a shielding connected via wall plates
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2020, 10:46:47 am »

Well, for installs where the wires may be in place for decades, it makes sense to use a more current cable. After all, the M32 et al may not be the console in use even just a few years from now.

My $0.02

We're now up to Cat 8 cable and it's supposedly backward compatible. Looks like it's meant to compete with short fiber runs.

https://www.cablesandkits.com/learning-center/what-are-cat8-ethernet-cables

Logged

Brian Jojade

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1724
    • HappyMac Digital Electronics
Re: Cat6a shielding connected via wall plates
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2020, 12:26:52 pm »

We're now up to Cat 8 cable and it's supposedly backward compatible. Looks like it's meant to compete with short fiber runs.

https://www.cablesandkits.com/learning-center/what-are-cat8-ethernet-cables

Cat 8 has a max cable length of 30 meters (about 100 feet). Great for server rooms and such, but not as a full installation technology.

Cat 6 is rated for 10 gigabit speeds for up to about 150 feet of cable, whereas cat6a is rated to do 10 gig for the full 100 meters.

In the overall scheme of things, cat 6 cable should be adequate for most things for the next decade or so.  However, we are starting to see more and more devices that support 10 gig ethernet.  If the cost allows installing cat 6a wiring, you can enjoy a few more years out of the installation before it will need replacement.  Replacing working cable to get something a little faster down the road is a much harder item to get into the budget.

Now, on an interesting note, I was working on a piece of equipment in a doctors office yesterday.  I came across a warning in the instructions that was interesting to me.  It specifically, and in BOLD letters said Do NOT use shielded cat cable for connecting the device, as that would present a risk of electrical shock to the patient.  Very weird to see that in the instructions.  I'm wondering what scenario could cause that to happen.

Logged
Brian Jojade

Russell Ault

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 828
  • Edmonton, AB
Re: Cat6a shielding connected via wall plates
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2020, 01:27:24 pm »

[...]
Now, on an interesting note, I was working on a piece of equipment in a doctors office yesterday.  I came across a warning in the instructions that was interesting to me.  It specifically, and in BOLD letters said Do NOT use shielded cat cable for connecting the device, as that would present a risk of electrical shock to the patient.  Very weird to see that in the instructions.  I'm wondering what scenario could cause that to happen.

Defibrillation?

-Russ
Logged

Erik Jerde

  • Classic LAB
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1019
Re: Cat6a shielding connected via wall plates
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2020, 09:41:33 pm »

Cat 8 has a max cable length of 30 meters (about 100 feet). Great for server rooms and such, but not as a full installation technology.

Cat 6 is rated for 10 gigabit speeds for up to about 150 feet of cable, whereas cat6a is rated to do 10 gig for the full 100 meters.

In the overall scheme of things, cat 6 cable should be adequate for most things for the next decade or so.  However, we are starting to see more and more devices that support 10 gig ethernet.  If the cost allows installing cat 6a wiring, you can enjoy a few more years out of the installation before it will need replacement.  Replacing working cable to get something a little faster down the road is a much harder item to get into the budget.

Now, on an interesting note, I was working on a piece of equipment in a doctors office yesterday.  I came across a warning in the instructions that was interesting to me.  It specifically, and in BOLD letters said Do NOT use shielded cat cable for connecting the device, as that would present a risk of electrical shock to the patient.  Very weird to see that in the instructions.  I'm wondering what scenario could cause that to happen.

In the AV world the big reason for higher spec cable is video transmission.  HDBT solutions from reputable mfgrs will have transmission distance listed by resolution on specific cable types. 
Logged

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Cat6a shielding connected via wall plates
¬ę Reply #9 on: September 25, 2020, 09:41:33 pm ¬Ľ


Pages: [1]   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.026 seconds with 26 queries.