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Author Topic: Vocal mic comparison and question (with sound samples)  (Read 1073 times)

Debbie Dunkley

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Re: Vocal mic comparison and question (with sound samples)
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2020, 06:06:35 pm »

I hear noise on the M160 track but silence on the E935 track.....
Also I think the e935 could pretty easily be EQ'd to be very close to the M160 if that is what you are looking for.
I have a couple of e935's and I like them. Side by side very similar to the Shure KSM8 IMO.
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: Vocal mic comparison and question (with sound samples)
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2020, 07:48:29 pm »

While you want a mic that sounds good just listening to single vocal recorded on a mic in a quite room tells you nothing how it will work/sound on stage with a full tilt band rocking out.

With as you say "We're a loud rock band" I would not pick any of these mics that you mentioned in your first post, "Sennheiser E965 or Neumann K105 or DPA 4018"

Get a good dynamic cardioid or super cardioid vocal mic and put the money you saved into another area of your PA system.

Russell Ault

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Re: Vocal mic comparison and question (with sound samples)
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2020, 11:36:46 pm »

[...] With as you say "We're a loud rock band" I would not pick any of these mics that you mentioned in your first post, "Sennheiser E965 or Neumann K105 or DPA 4018" [...]

Isn't there some great story about Robert Scovill switching Tom Petty over a Neumann KMS 150 (the precursor to the KMS 105) because, with a quiet singer and a loud stage, if he was going to pick up that much stage wash he at least wanted it to sound good?

-Russ
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Vocal mic comparison and question (with sound samples)
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2020, 02:48:35 am »

Isn't there some great story about Robert Scovill switching Tom Petty over a Neumann KMS 150 (the precursor to the KMS 105) because, with a quiet singer and a loud stage, if he was going to pick up that much stage wash he at least wanted it to sound good?

-Russ

The thing that allowed Scovi to make the Neumann work is that the mic stayed in the same place, and the superior off-axis (phase) response allowed him to delay the stage instrument inputs to their arrival times at Petty's mic.  Without both, it probably wouldn't have mattered.
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Russell Ault

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Re: Vocal mic comparison and question (with sound samples)
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2020, 02:34:42 pm »

The thing that allowed Scovi to make the Neumann work is that the mic stayed in the same place, and the superior off-axis (phase) response allowed him to delay the stage instrument inputs to their arrival times at Petty's mic.  Without both, it probably wouldn't have mattered.

Right, so, a mark against wireless, but a mark in favour of a high-quality microphone, even on a loud stage. Just one more thing for the OP to consider as they work through all the compromises live sound requires...

-Russ
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Vocal mic comparison and question (with sound samples)
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2020, 03:40:44 pm »

Right, so, a mark against wireless, but a mark in favour of a high-quality microphone, even on a loud stage. Just one more thing for the OP to consider as they work through all the compromises live sound requires...

-Russ

The moving target wireless makes this impossible.  Moving the mic more than a few inches could so some audibly unattractive things.

One of the more 'pristine' shows I heard used 96 inputs.  Which of the 96 was heard depended on whether your were an audience member or in the band.  The audio wasn't just sweetened, it was pre-baked and served cold.  Acoustic comb filters don't exist when what one hears is from the Pro Tools rig...  No names, this act is still in business and they're not a bunch of geezers who can't hit the high notes..
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Scott Bolt

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Re: Vocal mic comparison and question (with sound samples)
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2020, 04:11:29 pm »

We are always tempted by the pretty sound we get of a vocal in isolation with a great ribbon mic; however, this is NOT how the vocal will sound with a loud stage at all.

It has been my experience that you get SOOO much stage bleed that the stage bleed is louder than the vocal ..... leading you to believe you need to turn up the vocal .... but only finding that as you raise the "vocal" slider, everything else gets louder too .... and you STILL can't hear the vocal like you want.... so you raise it more only to find out you are out of headroom and the system starts to feedback.

Good all alone simply doesn't translate to good in a real live setting. 

Further, I would like to remark a bit on Debbie's post.  The e935 is a plenty good mic and properly equalized it is right down outstanding for live work.

Focus on which mic allows you to make the BAND sound good.  Seriously ..... give it a good ole fashioned A/B test on a real stage with the band playing at real gig volumes (don't let them punk you either.  You know there isn't a guitar player on the planet that doesn't turn up after sound check ;).  That probably isn't really fair to guitar players .... which I am btw .... most band members get louder through out the night ).

I think you will be amazed at how much better things sound when you can work the system to get the mix you want vs. fighting all night with ringing and stage bleed.

FYI, I have found that if you don't have drum shields or vDrums, the lead singer's mic is going to pickup those cymbals and snare cracks so much it makes it impossible to get the levels right.... at least on small stages where the lead singer is forced to stand within 3 feet of the drums.  Shoot, there were times when it was hard to keep my guitar neck out of the cymbals we were packed so tight! :)
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: Vocal mic comparison and question (with sound samples)
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2020, 04:31:15 pm »

We are always tempted by the pretty sound we get of a vocal in isolation with a great ribbon mic; however, this is NOT how the vocal will sound with a loud stage at all.

It has been my experience that you get SOOO much stage bleed that the stage bleed is louder than the vocal ..... leading you to believe you need to turn up the vocal .... but only finding that as you raise the "vocal" slider, everything else gets louder too .... and you STILL can't hear the vocal like you want.... so you raise it more only to find out you are out of headroom and the system starts to feedback.

Good all alone simply doesn't translate to good in a real live setting. 



This ^
You don't WANT every single nuance picked up through the vocal mic on a live stage - it can become a real headache to mix. The drums (cymbals) will be your worst nightmare.
If some subtleties are missing in the sound of a good quality dynamic mic compared to a condenser or ribbon mic, you will never miss them through the PA AND you won't be fighting with the sound all night long!
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A young child says to his mother, "Mom, when I grow up I'm going to be a musician." She replies, "Well honey, you know you can't do both."

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Vocal mic comparison and question (with sound samples)
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2020, 04:31:15 pm »


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