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[Ed Taylor]

really, looking to see thoughts on Small, Med, Large ...again, semi-pro rigs

now, can of worms on this of course would be that we keep a good variety of gear so that, for example, I might take on a small regional ComicCon event which has a main stage, and 3 breakout rooms at the hotel (yes, actually have done this).
so we're talking couple speakers on sticks, small analog mixers per room and then a larger console and speakers for main hall.
none of these rigs goes beyond what I think we'd consider small PA, and yet it takes a mid sized audio company to be able to place that many rigs at a venue.

So I'm bucketing "small" as 2 speakers on a stick for guitar dude on a stool type work, maybe add a wedge.

medium for me is my main rig which I don't consider an outdoor capable rig beyond small town pavillion work.
We run 24chx8 digital and while most of our ball-room type venues only need 1 per side, we can double up..so (2)3-way mains and (2)subs per side (15s or 18s)
We can wedge as many as they want or provide for up to 8 IEMs
I have a backup 24ch console, so technically I could chain em for 48, but then I'd have no backup.
and there's still old analog 32ch and a small outboard rack that haven't seen daylight in a number of years.. just not worth anything on the street, but somehow it gives me peace of mind that I might have a fallback on a really bad day (grin)

I've honestly not wanted to get any larger than this, and as I've said, most of my full band work never really calls for more than 1 per side boxes.
and the better net profit jobs over the past couple years were the high end smaller things..corporate etc..where transparent background sound from my Bose units was all the client actually wanted..jazz trio, etc in the corner, talking heads...and if source tracks needed more, then the bose compacts sit on top of EV zxa 12" subs.

so I'm curious,for most of your work...where do you guys consider your rig a fit?

[Dave Pluke]

really, looking to see thoughts on Small, Med, Large ...again, semi-pro rigs

To me:

Small is 2 S-o-S, maybe a sub and/or wedge

Mid may be 2 Tops and adequate Subbage per side

Large, for me, has more to do with complexity (i.e. delays, flown or towered tops, separate FOH and Monitor consoles, etc.).  I'm comfortable providing 8 x 18" per side and matching 2 or 3 way trap boxes (don't have a line array at this time), eight separate biamped monitor mixes plus triamped side/drum fill.

If the event requires more than 32 inputs, I have to improvise.

Dave

[Ken Braziel]

My approach is similar to yours Ed, I have no intentions of going any bigger than what's typically considered "medium" setups. I use all QSC self-powered speakers & build each system appropriately for each application.

Simplest setup was for an MC at a fundraiser for a horse-rescue, brought the little 2-channel Yamaha mixer, a K8.2 for the sitting area and two K12.2's for the field. One wireless mic.

I bring a small setup for a local restaurant's outdoor stage, two KW122's on sticks, one sub, four monitors, 16-channel digital mixer side-stage & mix with an ipad.

There's another restaurant in the same chain about an hour away that I haul the 12.2's and a cardioid sub & however many K8.2's I might need, the promoter brings his own K12's (out-fills) and a pair of K10's to supplement the setup so I don't have to haul too much. That was almost weekly last year, Dave G from this board works lights for that series.

My summer series has the biggest and most complex setup, typically ~45 shows a year with two stages (only one is ever used at a time) - small one gets a small but well equipped setup, big one is the beast, large outdoor stage with a main concert direction and "VIP" seating off to the sides. Two cardioid subs and four KLA's for the dance-floor, two KW122's per side for the out-fills, three delay boxes down the Stage-Left side because the stage covering muffles the out-fills on that side beyond 30' or so and there is a LOT of seating far away from the stage, 32-channel digital on Stage Right, 32-channel stagebox for the tidy-stage, and a bunch of KW122's for monitors. Cover bands with huge draws all summer, outdoor mall, owner pays for it all and pays us well (I always have 2 people working that one because of the complexity, though I did it myself a couple of times last year when I couldn't find an A2) and lets us eat on the band's tab at a nice restaurant after each show. All gear is stored on-site all summer, freaking great gig (except this year).

I have no intentions of going bigger, just better over time.

[Doug Fowler]

really, looking to see thoughts on Small, Med, Large ...again, semi-pro rigs

now, can of worms on this of course would be that we keep a good variety of gear so that, for example, I might take on a small regional ComicCon event which has a main stage, and 3 breakout rooms at the hotel (yes, actually have done this).
so we're talking couple speakers on sticks, small analog mixers per room and then a larger console and speakers for main hall.
none of these rigs goes beyond what I think we'd consider small PA, and yet it takes a mid sized audio company to be able to place that many rigs at a venue.

So I'm bucketing "small" as 2 speakers on a stick for guitar dude on a stool type work, maybe add a wedge.

medium for me is my main rig which I don't consider an outdoor capable rig beyond small town pavillion work.
We run 24chx8 digital and while most of our ball-room type venues only need 1 per side, we can double up..so (2)3-way mains and (2)subs per side (15s or 18s)
We can wedge as many as they want or provide for up to 8 IEMs
I have a backup 24ch console, so technically I could chain em for 48, but then I'd have no backup.
and there's still old analog 32ch and a small outboard rack that haven't seen daylight in a number of years.. just not worth anything on the street, but somehow it gives me peace of mind that I might have a fallback on a really bad day (grin)

I've honestly not wanted to get any larger than this, and as I've said, most of my full band work never really calls for more than 1 per side boxes.
and the better net profit jobs over the past couple years were the high end smaller things..corporate etc..where transparent background sound from my Bose units was all the client actually wanted..jazz trio, etc in the corner, talking heads...and if source tracks needed more, then the bose compacts sit on top of EV zxa 12" subs.

so I'm curious,for most of your work...where do you guys consider your rig a fit?

Depends on context. To me (and many others), enough for 1500-3000ish. 

As always, it depends.

[Scott Holtzman]

really, looking to see thoughts on Small, Med, Large ...again, semi-pro rigs

now, can of worms on this of course would be that we keep a good variety of gear so that, for example, I might take on a small regional ComicCon event which has a main stage, and 3 breakout rooms at the hotel (yes, actually have done this).
so we're talking couple speakers on sticks, small analog mixers per room and then a larger console and speakers for main hall.
none of these rigs goes beyond what I think we'd consider small PA, and yet it takes a mid sized audio company to be able to place that many rigs at a venue.

So I'm bucketing "small" as 2 speakers on a stick for guitar dude on a stool type work, maybe add a wedge.

medium for me is my main rig which I don't consider an outdoor capable rig beyond small town pavillion work.
We run 24chx8 digital and while most of our ball-room type venues only need 1 per side, we can double up..so (2)3-way mains and (2)subs per side (15s or 18s)
We can wedge as many as they want or provide for up to 8 IEMs
I have a backup 24ch console, so technically I could chain em for 48, but then I'd have no backup.
and there's still old analog 32ch and a small outboard rack that haven't seen daylight in a number of years.. just not worth anything on the street, but somehow it gives me peace of mind that I might have a fallback on a really bad day (grin)

I've honestly not wanted to get any larger than this, and as I've said, most of my full band work never really calls for more than 1 per side boxes.
and the better net profit jobs over the past couple years were the high end smaller things..corporate etc..where transparent background sound from my Bose units was all the client actually wanted..jazz trio, etc in the corner, talking heads...and if source tracks needed more, then the bose compacts sit on top of EV zxa 12" subs.

so I'm curious,for most of your work...where do you guys consider your rig a fit?

Hmm never used the value meal naming convention, this is what we use as to our Great Lakes competitors so we can sub for each other.  Within each category are sm/med/large


Club rig - Simple SoS, usually dual subs, wifi control or stageside wifi capable mizer.  less than 6 monitor mixes


Wedding/private gigs -
Most important in this category is it's your cleanest gear.  System depends on venue.  At several event venues they have points so we can fly a small rig.  DB T4/T8, FBT Mitus/QA, One competitor brings Vue AL4's and another D&B Q1&B2's - 
The column arrays are in this category too. 
For groundstack systems we use KW153's over KW181 (up to 6 a side) our HK projector (horn loaded 6 cabinets a side), competitors ground stack small line arrays like VRX and those fancy guys at 8th day bring out D&B C7's


Then you get into small paying concerts, which can be at clubs, amphitheaters, sheds, etc. and we use Genies with various line arrays, the aforementioned ground stacked rigs or if venue has provisions we fly the appropriate about of cabinets. 


The next step up is large venues. 


This isn't as clear as I thought it was but what I was trying to say is club system (which most companies don't bother with), privates, corporate and concerts.  The rig you spec is driven by the venue and format of the performance/presentation.

[Dave Garoutte]

Small: 1 or 2 DXR12 SOS.  Maybe subs.
Tweener : 2 DSR12 over subs SOS
Mid: SM80 over Th118 (2 or 4).
This rig works for Street fairs and some DJ work.
I have no interest in anything bigger.
I make more renting my stages anyway.

[Jeff Lelko]

Hmm never used the value meal naming convention...

That's funny!  I also say that small/medium/large is too much dependent on context to be a one-size-fits all from an equipment selection perspective, but here's how I break things down from a business/logistics/pricing perspective:

Small - I can wrangle the system and gig myself with a single utility van.

Medium - Me plus one or two assistants and a box truck.

Large - I need to hire an entire crew of varying skill levels with multiple trucks to make the job happen, including the delegation of decision making authority to senior crew members who can hold their own. 

Typically this also coincides with the amount/quality/capability of the equipment we're using, but not always.  Hope this helps!

[Tim Weaver]

I think of it as how much venue can the rig serve. Small would be 500-800 people indoors. Medium would be 1000-2000, maybe outdoors. Large would be anything above that, usually outdoors, usually requires a real truck or two.


The rigs would be spec'ed to provide adaquate coverage and volume for whatever the gig needs. 800 folks indoors at a thrash metal show is a different rig from 1500 outdoors folk festival.

The smart play is to buy into a system that can scale from SoS all the way up to flown off a truss roof. You may end up using your "small" mains as front fills for your big boy PA. But if it's all from the same eco-system it looks and feels "pro" to both the client and the guest engineers.

[Doug Fowler]

The smart play is to buy into a system that can scale from SoS all the way up to flown off a truss roof. You may end up using your "small" mains as front fills for your big boy PA. But if it's all from the same eco-system it looks and feels "pro" to both the client and the guest engineers.

Yep. That's why these small "vertical" array elements make SO much sense.

Scalability = chance for profit.   Who cares if it's not a "real line array" when you can strap a couple or three to a sub, cover your small event, then build a 12 deep tomorrow for a party in a field for 2000 people?

[Jeff Bankston]

I have a medium non flown rig. 16-18" woofers. 8-12" mids. 8 giant 2" throat DDS 60x40 horns.  QSC series 3 amps totaling 37200 available watts of power. And my dream board a Midas Heritage 2000 48 channel. I also have a small Yamaha 24 channel board, Mackie 16 channel board, and 2 AH 16 channel boards. I dont have to use all the speakers and amps. I can just use 2-18" woofers, 4-12" mids and 2 horns. So technically the question of what is a small , medium , and large PA depends on "how much" equipment do you have. If I add more speakers and amps I can have a huge PA available if needed. I dont always use everything. Depends on the size of place and the size of the crowd. Its better to have too much and not use some then not enough and ......... !

[ProSoundWeb Community]