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Author Topic: What constitutes a "mid-size" PA to you?  (Read 1388 times)

Jay Marr

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Re: What constitutes a "mid-size" PA to you?
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2020, 08:56:47 am »

On my menu:
Mini (acoustic) - RCF310s with a single RCF ART800as sub (Yamaha MGx 4ch mixer)
Small (bar) - DSR112s over SRX718s (X32 rack)
Medium (club) - JTR Noesis 3TX over SRX728s (X32 rack)
Large - call my buddy Jim Roese from RPM productions (which happens once in a blue moon)
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Ed Taylor

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Re: What constitutes a "mid-size" PA to you?
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2020, 11:57:20 am »

On my menu:
Mini (acoustic) - RCF310s with a single RCF ART800as sub (Yamaha MGx 4ch mixer)
Small (bar) - DSR112s over SRX718s (X32 rack)
Medium (club) - JTR Noesis 3TX over SRX728s (X32 rack)
Large - call my buddy Jim Roese from RPM productions (which happens once in a blue moon)

I see the lil Yamaha 12s showing up on a lot more conversations..not to get off topic, but for those small SOS/sub gigs, are you happy with the DSR series?  vs QSC K12s for example?  Again, not DJ, more live band stuff.  thanks
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Helge A Bentsen

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Re: What constitutes a "mid-size" PA to you?
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2020, 12:10:45 pm »

I see the lil Yamaha 12s showing up on a lot more conversations..not to get off topic, but for those small SOS/sub gigs, are you happy with the DSR series?  vs QSC K12s for example?  Again, not DJ, more live band stuff.  thanks

Nope. I prefer 3-way boxes or more expensive 2-way boxes.
2-way boxes in that price range doesn't sound pleasing to my ear.
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Jay Marr

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Re: What constitutes a "mid-size" PA to you?
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2020, 12:22:39 pm »

I see the lil Yamaha 12s showing up on a lot more conversations..not to get off topic, but for those small SOS/sub gigs, are you happy with the DSR series?  vs QSC K12s for example?  Again, not DJ, more live band stuff.  thanks

Vs the K12s for example (which I have owned) - absolutely prefer the DSR.
DSR get a lot of love for good reason.  Really clean and clear small box.
Over a set of single 18 subs, or a single dual 18 sub, they create an outstanding compact system.
For smaller rooms, I haven't found anything better (but I have not tried any $2k+ boxes like the RCF TT).
I have GAS for new gear and have tried a ton of 12" boxes.  Since having the DSR, I've been happy and haven't thought about changing.
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Brian Bolly

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Re: What constitutes a "mid-size" PA to you?
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2020, 12:46:30 pm »

The smart play is to buy into a system that can scale from SoS all the way up to flown off a truss roof. You may end up using your "small" mains as front fills for your big boy PA. But if it's all from the same eco-system it looks and feels "pro" to both the client and the guest engineers.

Yep. That's why these small "vertical" array elements make SO much sense.

Scalability = chance for profit.   Who cares if it's not a "real line array" when you can strap a couple or three to a sub, cover your small event, then build a 12 deep tomorrow for a party in a field for 2000 people?

I've been preaching this exact idea of "system scalability" for years.  The small SOS boxes should be a great ROI source on their own, yet be able to play nice and be deployed as front fills for the large system.  Every box (within reason) should be independent and complimentary to everything else in the inventory, and it's the ideal that we've built on for over a decade.  We have a small handful of boxes for dry hire that don't play into this theory, but everything else is a building block of some sort.

Re: OP's original question:

That's a bit of a loaded question.  Usually if we're into chain hoists  and PDs we're into "large" territory.  Small is SOS or a small ground stack per side.  Can it all fit into a sprinter van?  Small to medium.  Truck?  Medium to large.  Semi?  Large.
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Mark Scrivener

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Re: What constitutes a "mid-size" PA to you?
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2020, 02:23:03 pm »

I see the lil Yamaha 12s showing up on a lot more conversations..not to get off topic, but for those small SOS/sub gigs, are you happy with the DSR series?  vs QSC K12s for example?  Again, not DJ, more live band stuff.  thanks

The DSR112's were recently discontinued, but are a very popular box on this forum. For their price point (sub $1k when they were selling new, prob still some stock out there), you won't find anything that gets louder and still sounds good doing it. Unless it is spoken word only, these boxes absolutely require subs.  I've used them for small events both indoors and out (bands, not DJ) and almost always get unsolicited praise from attendees on the sound quality. And when the gigs get bigger, the DSR112's make great monitors.

Tim McCulloch

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Re: What constitutes a "mid-size" PA to you?
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2020, 02:50:20 pm »

Hmmm.  I kind of like Brian's truck analogy.

I look at covering the audience area (and any special VIP locations) first, then pick products based on the program material and the expectations that creates.

If I'm doing spoken word with occasional playback the audience/client expectations are different from doing a Metallica tribute act *regardless of venue size*.   Genre determines SPL and spectral distribution so what might be thought of as a "medium" system for one style might be a Size Small for anther style... or vast overkill for yet another.

It Depends«
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Chris Hindle

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Re: What constitutes a "mid-size" PA to you?
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2020, 03:48:25 pm »

That's a bit of a loaded question.  Usually if we're into chain hoists  and PDs we're into "large" territory.  Small is SOS or a small ground stack per side.  Can it all fit into a sprinter van?  Small to medium.  Truck?  Medium to large.  Semi?  Large.

Brian has a good take on it.
If it fits in my car, it's SOS and a couple of mics, 1 or 2 wedges, and not much more.
1-Ton van gets Small, 500 ppl or less
1-Ton Cube. small with over-the-top lighting, and medium (to me, medium is convention center and ballroom weddings and such, up to 2,000 ppl.)
26 foot starts the bigger stuff, up to 5-6,000 ppl.
Semi(s) for "real" shows.
Your results may vary - expected coverage and volume requirements, lighting package etc.
Medium to me is probably a drop in the bucket for many here...
Chris.
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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: What constitutes a "mid-size" PA to you?
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2020, 03:26:23 am »

On my menu:
Mini (acoustic) - RCF310s with a single RCF ART800as sub (Yamaha MGx 4ch mixer)
Small (bar) - DSR112s over SRX718s (X32 rack)
Medium (club) - JTR Noesis 3TX over SRX728s (X32 rack)
Large - call my buddy Jim Roese from RPM productions (which happens once in a blue moon)

I follow a similar pattern, but I designed my main speakers so they could get flat down to 60Hz or 44Hz, taking a hit on SPL.

It goes like this:
Mini: Just the mains, tuned lower and EQ'd. QSC TM16, couple of wedges
Small: Mains + 2x 15" subs, 80Hz crossover. QSC TM30, 4x wedges
Medium: Mains + lots of 15" subs, 120Hz crossover, QSC TM30, lots of wedges
Large: Rent in racks & stacks, use my mains as side-fills

Chris
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Mal Brown

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Re: What constitutes a "mid-size" PA to you?
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2020, 02:55:28 pm »

For the most we're all basically on similar pages. 
Small is powered SOS, a couple of powered wedges and for most of us a lunch pail and tablet.

Med expands on that by adding 2 to 4 subs and maybe stepping up to a powered 3 way plus some SOS outfills  - maybe.  The same lunch pail and more monitors.  In my case I'll add a pop up tent and and hardwired (ethernet/CAT5) connection to the mixer.  In my case my surface is a touch screen Dell. 500 people, outside venue.

I top out at 4 La400's under up to 6 Renkus 3 way traps  Ground stacked or subs under Bakers scaffold to support the tops.   probably more monitors.  Families in the park, 2 to 3k people.  I may run my SI Impact and stage box but more often it will be networked UI-24r's if I'm mixing.

The other configuration I run is sports events.  I (used to) provide for wind and water events along the columbia. 

Some of those have a main stage plus a DJ and talking head tower plus strings of SOS.   For that I'm running zones on delay from the main stage as the DJ and Talking Heads are distributed everytwhere.

Some of those are a small performance stage, an awards stage, a talking head platform all on SOS pairs.   Plus a string of powered speakers along a wall above a beach area.  I hate that as there is no local power so I have to run power and signal along the wall and bury it in the sand on the beach side.  Major pita.  For this year I had planned on adding in a few small inverter generators (Honda EU-2000, Yamaha, Subaru, etc) each to power pods of 4 speaks.  Signal would have been distributed by MiPro wireless packs.   Just as happy I did not make that investment last winter in my spending season...



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Re: What constitutes a "mid-size" PA to you?
┬ź Reply #19 on: August 04, 2020, 02:55:28 pm ┬╗


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