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Author Topic: EAW SB1000 vs Sonic R218 bass??  (Read 1743 times)

Mike Henderson

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Re: EAW SB1000 vs Sonic R218 bass??
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2020, 07:59:39 am »

Unless you have a cross-over that has separate high-pass and low-pass filter settings (and possibly adjustable filter slopes), you may never get the "punch" you are looking for.  I told you it gets complicated!

Ok now I understand what you mean by "high Pass Filter". So this info is suggesting to me that to get Punch it does not only depend on type of cab and woofers but also maybe even more so on the Processor being used, is this correct please? So maybe best to get a Digital Processor for Speaker Management instead of using the Analog Ashly?
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: EAW SB1000 vs Sonic R218 bass??
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2020, 01:02:28 pm »

Ok now I understand what you mean by "high Pass Filter". So this info is suggesting to me that to get Punch it does not only depend on type of cab and woofers but also maybe even more so on the Processor being used, is this correct please? So maybe best to get a Digital Processor for Speaker Management instead of using the Analog Ashly?

In my reference to a high pass filter that was for the subwoofer to block sub low frequencies from being amplified and causing the sub to "unload" in trying to reproduce frequencies that it can not do.

Yes the "punch" can be a cabinet and processing overall combination.

What Don was talking about is crossover under lapping .

Below is a copy of a basic description of this topic I posted on another forum a while back.



In the case of crossing over from lows to mids or from any band pass to the next is when you run the band passes at different level as in more lows than mids raising the low output level increased the low drivers frequencies that are over lapping into the mid range area.

Excuse my crude drawing!

The middle vertical black line represents your intended crossover frequency.

The green line is your mid range crossover output level and cut off slope.

The red line to the left of the green line is the low frequency output level and cutoff slope.

Both at the same level the crossover frequency both electronic and acoustic is the same.
Now look at the upper red line that represents a higher low frequency output level and low pass cutoff frequency that is still set at the same high pass frequency as the mid range.

You can see that it moved the acoustic crossover frequency higher with more overlap between the lows and the mids.

The dashed blue line represents the same higher low frequency output level only with a
lower low pass frequency and the resulting acoustic crossover now matches what the intended electronic crossover frequency was to be.
 

Mike Henderson

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Re: EAW SB1000 vs Sonic R218 bass??
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2020, 02:17:31 pm »

In my reference to a high pass filter that was for the subwoofer to block sub low frequencies from being amplified and causing the sub to "unload" in trying to reproduce frequencies that it can not do.

Yes the "punch" can be a cabinet and processing overall combination.

What Don was talking about is crossover under lapping .

Even though I'm not sure I have grasped all of this technical stuff, thanks for taking the time to do the drawing and explaining it.

A friend had told be that a Digital processor will make the speaker perform more accurately than an Analog Crossover so that I get.
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: EAW SB1000 vs Sonic R218 bass??
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2020, 03:17:43 pm »

Even though I'm not sure I have grasped all of this technical stuff, thanks for taking the time to do the drawing and explaining it.

A friend had told be that a Digital processor will make the speaker perform more accurately than an Analog Crossover so that I get.

Yes and no.............
Just slapping in a DSP and dialing up a crossover frequency not so much.

Setting up bandpass output limiting, driver/cabinet offset delay, crossover frequency underlap, output
bandpass EQ will take more understanding of system set up and some analyzing software to get things dialed in will help you get the most out of your system.

What are your top boxes in the system?
« Last Edit: July 15, 2020, 07:41:20 pm by Mike Caldwell »
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Don T. Williams

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Re: EAW SB1000 vs Sonic R218 bass??
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2020, 04:44:09 pm »

In my reference to a high pass filter that was for the subwoofer to block sub low frequencies from being amplified and causing the sub to "unload" in trying to reproduce frequencies that it can not do.

Yes the "punch" can be a cabinet and processing overall combination.

What Don was talking about is crossover under lapping .

Below is a copy of a basic description of this topic I posted on another forum a while back.



In the case of crossing over from lows to mids or from any band pass to the next is when you run the band passes at different level as in more lows than mids raising the low output level increased the low drivers frequencies that are over lapping into the mid range area.

Excuse my crude drawing!

The middle vertical black line represents your intended crossover frequency.

The green line is your mid range crossover output level and cut off slope.

The red line to the left of the green line is the low frequency output level and cutoff slope.

Both at the same level the crossover frequency both electronic and acoustic is the same.
Now look at the upper red line that represents a higher low frequency output level and low pass cutoff frequency that is still set at the same high pass frequency as the mid range.

You can see that it moved the acoustic crossover frequency higher with more overlap between the lows and the mids.

The dashed blue line represents the same higher low frequency output level only with a
lower low pass frequency and the resulting acoustic crossover now matches what the intended electronic crossover frequency was to be.
 

Mike, Thanks for the illustrations and additional information.  There is so much more information and knowledge available today from when I entered into the world of live sound in the 1960's.  I don't think bi-amping and separate subwoofers were even available at that, and digital speaker controller/processors were not even imaginable.  Who would have thought that power amplifiers that produced thousands of watts and weighed under 25 lbs. would be available - and affordable! 
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Doug Fowler

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Re: EAW SB1000 vs Sonic R218 bass??
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2020, 05:36:15 pm »

Even though I'm not sure I have grasped all of this technical stuff, thanks for taking the time to do the drawing and explaining it.

A friend had told be that a Digital processor will make the speaker perform more accurately than an Analog Crossover so that I get.

"A friend told me".

Do yourself a favor and buy a powered sub.  You're barely treading water in the deep end of the pool.

https://www.bassboss.com/buy/powered-subwoofer-dj18s/

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"It's got electrolytes.  It's got what plants crave."

Don T. Williams

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Re: EAW SB1000 vs Sonic R218 bass??
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2020, 05:59:54 pm »

"A friend told me".

Do yourself a favor and buy a powered sub.  You're barely treading water in the deep end of the pool.

https://www.bassboss.com/buy/powered-subwoofer-dj18s/

+1 for that!  Much easier and will probably sound better too.
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Mike Henderson

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Re: EAW SB1000 vs Sonic R218 bass??
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2020, 06:52:47 am »

"A friend told me".

Do yourself a favor and buy a powered sub.  You're barely treading water in the deep end of the pool.

https://www.bassboss.com/buy/powered-subwoofer-dj18s/

I must say what I am reading is very impressive. I will definitely look into it thanks!
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Doug Fowler

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Re: EAW SB1000 vs Sonic R218 bass??
« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2020, 03:47:12 pm »

I must say what I am reading is very impressive. I will definitely look into it thanks!

A big part of what Dave has done at BASSBOSS is create tightly controlled systems that are almost impossible to damage.  This is huge for club owners, meaning no more re-cones (no, really).  That engineering technology trickles down to the portable DJ series. 

Call the factory with your questions, they will be very helpful. 

Disclaimer: I have never received compensation in any form from this company. I know the owner, I have used his products in (extreme) anger several times, and you can be confident with a purchase. 
I have only ever used the three way top box once, and it also is very good.
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"It's got electrolytes.  It's got what plants crave."

Mike Henderson

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Re: EAW SB1000 vs Sonic R218 bass??
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2020, 04:21:17 pm »

Call the factory with your questions, they will be very helpful.

I guess I will need to call them, has to be a reason why they don't list the prices on the page. I shudder to know the price :)
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: EAW SB1000 vs Sonic R218 bass??
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2020, 04:21:17 pm »


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