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Author Topic: EAW SB1000 vs Sonic R218 bass??  (Read 1742 times)

Ivan Beaver

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Re: EAW SB1000 vs Sonic R218 bass??
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2020, 08:12:23 am »

There is more to a sub  than simply the design or the drivers used.  Putting better drivers in a flimsy cabinet will have minimal effect.

How well it is constructed, bracing, type of wood etc makes a BIG difference in the final outcome/performance.

Every Sonic cabinet I have seen has been cheap wood, minimal or no bracing, cheap construction etc.

This all adds together and will absorb the energy from the woofers, instead of putting it out into the audience.

EAW has always build a solid cabinet, that holds together well.

That means more energy for the audience.

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scottstephens

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Re: EAW SB1000 vs Sonic R218 bass??
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2020, 01:01:07 pm »

Mike,

   As stated before, Sonic isn't exactly "stellar" to say the least! You get what you pay for! Also, What amp are you using to drive the subs?  A Big Amp Like a high end Crown ( I tech, MA ) or a QSC PL series or several other manufacturers will stomp a cheap amp. Every Day All Day!

Scott
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Mike Henderson

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Re: EAW SB1000 vs Sonic R218 bass??
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2020, 04:12:10 pm »

Mike,

   As stated before, Sonic isn't exactly "stellar" to say the least! You get what you pay for! Also, What amp are you using to drive the subs?  A Big Amp Like a high end Crown ( I tech, MA ) or a QSC PL series or several other manufacturers will stomp a cheap amp. Every Day All Day!

Scott

I got that guys. Based on your answer I have to assume you did not see my last post? If not, here is it is again so ADMIN please note that I am not meaning to double post or bump:


Thanks for coming to my rescue guys. Sorry I did not want to create many posts responding to each of you so I will address all in this post.

From reading everyone's post I gather that yes, my instincts was correct that it would be better to go with the SB1000, thanks for settling that for me and I appreciate you taking the time to do all of that work for me Mike [Caldwell], thank you!

Caleb, yes, I had inquired about other speaker design options for punch bass on different forums but could not get an answer from anyone. As mentioned I loved the roundness, depth, distance and punch of SB1000. All of those features is what I am seeking. Especially though I want punch [boom] when the bass hits.

I had inquired into which types of cabinet design gives punch or rather what is it exactly in a speaker design which determines the amount of punch the cab would give. I had asked this question on forums and even of an experienced local speaker builder and he could not answer this question which surprised me I must say.

Then too, would a 15 or 18" be better for punch?

If you guys might be able to answer the above questions or at least recommend any other type cab I can look into which would give me the punch bass with a distance of say 20', I would appreciate it, thanks.

p.s. To answer your question Scott, I am using Crown VZ 3600 so it's not a power issue with the Sonic. The Sonic just doesn't give the type of bass and response that I had heard from my friends SB1000.
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Doug Fowler

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Re: EAW SB1000 vs Sonic R218 bass??
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2020, 04:35:50 pm »

I got that guys. Based on your answer I have to assume you did not see my last post? If not, here is it is again so ADMIN please note that I am not meaning to double post or bump:


Thanks for coming to my rescue guys. Sorry I did not want to create many posts responding to each of you so I will address all in this post.

From reading everyone's post I gather that yes, my instincts was correct that it would be better to go with the SB1000, thanks for settling that for me and I appreciate you taking the time to do all of that work for me Mike [Caldwell], thank you!

Caleb, yes, I had inquired about other speaker design options for punch bass on different forums but could not get an answer from anyone. As mentioned I loved the roundness, depth, distance and punch of SB1000. All of those features is what I am seeking. Especially though I want punch [boom] when the bass hits.

I had inquired into which types of cabinet design gives punch or rather what is it exactly in a speaker design which determines the amount of punch the cab would give. I had asked this question on forums and even of an experienced local speaker builder and he could not answer this question which surprised me I must say.

Then too, would a 15 or 18" be better for punch?

If you guys might be able to answer the above questions or at least recommend any other type cab I can look into which would give me the punch bass with a distance of say 20', I would appreciate it, thanks.

p.s. To answer your question Scott, I am using Crown VZ 3600 so it's not a power issue with the Sonic. The Sonic just doesn't give the type of bass and response that I had heard from my friends SB1000.

There is a reason SB1000 costs 4-5 times as much as that Sonic box.  It's been an industry standard for 20 years. 

Be careful with a 3600 on subs.  There used to be a particular point of failure but I can't recall specifically. Maybe it got fixed with VZ.

"Punch at 20 feet" sounds like a guitarist chasing "tone".  That's a lifelong quest for many.  It's definitely not measurable.  I will say, however, that for many years big stage drum monitoring setups commonly used 15s for the low end. 

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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: EAW SB1000 vs Sonic R218 bass??
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2020, 05:04:09 pm »

I find that "punch" is typically a function of the integration between the subs and main speakers. Having a solid 70-160Hz range is important.

Chris
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Doug Fowler

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Re: EAW SB1000 vs Sonic R218 bass??
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2020, 06:30:57 pm »

I find that "punch" is typically a function of the integration between the subs and main speakers. Having a solid 70-160Hz range is important.

Chris

Agreed.  Especially important for EDM.
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Mike Henderson

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Re: EAW SB1000 vs Sonic R218 bass??
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2020, 06:40:18 pm »

I find that "punch" is typically a function of the integration between the subs and main speakers. Having a solid 70-160Hz range is important.

Chris

That's pretty much where my crossover frequency is set but this Sonic does not give a punch bass. It will rattle the floor and shake the walls effectively but I certainly would not say it produces a punchy bass therefore I cannot say it's the frequency alone which determines if a Cab would produce punch.

I had thought either a specific Cab's design or a specific woofer itself or both would determine if you would get punch bass. If this is not the case then how does one go about getting a speaker if they like punchy bass? Would a person need to simply go listen to different Subs in the hopes to find one which gives a punchy bass?
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 06:42:21 pm by Mike Henderson »
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: EAW SB1000 vs Sonic R218 bass??
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2020, 07:20:49 pm »

Are you using an effective high pass filter at some point between the mixer and the subs.
If there flapping around trying to reproduce what they can't that can dull the "punch".

Going back to your original post, when you said you listened to your friends SB1000's was that in their complete system or did you just swap in the SB1000's to your system?

Mike Henderson

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Re: EAW SB1000 vs Sonic R218 bass??
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2020, 07:42:52 pm »

Are you using an effective high pass filter at some point between the mixer and the subs.

My DJ Mixer runs to a DBX EQ which runs into the Ashly 1001 Crossover then to the Crown Amps.

Yes, the friend was simply running the SB1000 with his EAW Tops.

We have tweaked my system every which way and whatever punch it throws out is not close to the SB 1000. My mind is pretty much set on getting the SB1000 so no need to further discuss the Sonic for any reason.

Caleb mentioned there are other options aside from the SB1000 so what those options are is what I would like to at least look into meantime.
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Don T. Williams

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Re: EAW SB1000 vs Sonic R218 bass??
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2020, 03:39:22 pm »

Things are even more complicated than you think.  Almost always, the subs are run louder than the cabinets they cross up to.  +10 to +12 is not uncommon and for EDM it can be much greater.  With a conventional cross-over, electrically the highs and lows should perfectly sum together at the crossover point and the system will be flat through that range if both low and high speakers have equal output levels.  That's the theory.  In reality, this almost never happens for a lot of reasons.  When the subs are run louder that the highs, it changes (raises) the acoustical (what we hear) cross-over point - sometimes by an octave!  Example - you think you are crossing over at 75Hz (the Ashly's setting) but the acoustical crossover point might actually be 125Hz.  Again this varies due to a lot of factors and this was a theoretical example.  In reality they probably overlap each other but are not in phase in the overlap range.  Unless you have a cross-over that has separate high-pass and low-pass filter settings (and possibly adjustable filter slopes), you may never get the "punch" you are looking for.  I told you it gets complicated!
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Re: EAW SB1000 vs Sonic R218 bass??
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2020, 03:39:22 pm »


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