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Author Topic: Volume Limiter for residential multi zone system  (Read 4052 times)

chris georgiou

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Volume Limiter for residential multi zone system
« on: July 05, 2020, 10:04:20 AM »

Looking for a simple volume limiter for a client that wants to use a DJ mixer with his residential audio system. Any digital alternatives to this that will allow me to lock it so nobody can mess with it?

https://rolls.com/product/SL33
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Caleb Dueck

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Re: Volume Limiter for residential multi zone system
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2020, 03:33:21 PM »

Looking for a simple volume limiter for a client that wants to use a DJ mixer with his residential audio system. Any digital alternatives to this that will allow me to lock it so nobody can mess with it?

https://rolls.com/product/SL33

Which DSP does he have?  If none - that's the issue.  There are plenty of inexpensive DSP's that can do this; Xilica QR, QSC MP-M, even a MiniDSP 2x4HD for $205. 
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Erik Jerde

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Re: Volume Limiter for residential multi zone system
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2020, 10:33:04 PM »

Looking for a simple volume limiter for a client that wants to use a DJ mixer with his residential audio system. Any digital alternatives to this that will allow me to lock it so nobody can mess with it?

https://rolls.com/product/SL33

Caleb has good inexpensive dsp recommendations.  Keep in mind compression/limiting won’t solve the problems created by square waves and clipping the DJ mixer.  A limiter could actually exacerbate the problem by someone pushing things harder when they don’t get a the response they expect.  In the end the only real safe solution is proper gain staging and operator training.
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: Volume Limiter for residential multi zone system
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2020, 07:20:37 PM »

What purpose is the DJ mixer being used for in the system?
As a source selector and volume control or does he like to play
DJ and do house parties?

What kind of residential audio system are we talking about, ceiling or in wall
speakers in every room of the house or a big home theater system in a party room.

chris georgiou

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Re: Volume Limiter for residential multi zone system
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2020, 08:54:34 PM »

What purpose is the DJ mixer being used for in the system?
As a source selector and volume control or does he like to play
DJ and do house parties?

What kind of residential audio system are we talking about, ceiling or in wall
speakers in every room of the house or a big home theater system in a party room.

It an 8 zone system with a dedicated home theater room. Mixture of high end in wall/ceiling speakers and outdoor speakers. The DJ function is for parties ones or twice a year. I really need something basic strictly to protect the system against mike issues or an over enthusiastic DJ.
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Caleb Dueck

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Re: Volume Limiter for residential multi zone system
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2020, 03:09:58 AM »

It an 8 zone system with a dedicated home theater room. Mixture of high end in wall/ceiling speakers and outdoor speakers. The DJ function is for parties ones or twice a year. I really need something basic strictly to protect the system against mike issues or an over enthusiastic DJ.

This is getting to be pretty common in residential systems.  Most just run the RCA inputs into the matrix mixer, but some flavor of inexpensive DSP for that one input works best.  Just make sure the DSP inputs themselves don't clip at too low a level. 

If it's a better system, like Crestron Home or Savant, check if there is an input sensitivity setting, if there is a networked audio encoder at the RCA location.  If it's just RG6 or similar from wall plate to rack - that will allow for a DSP in the rack for that input. 
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Craig Hauber

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Re: Volume Limiter for residential multi zone system
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2020, 01:08:11 PM »

It an 8 zone system with a dedicated home theater room. Mixture of high end in wall/ceiling speakers and outdoor speakers. The DJ function is for parties ones or twice a year. I really need something basic strictly to protect the system against mike issues or an over enthusiastic DJ.
One issue I have dealt with for years is the mic.
They are normally run by the DJ through the crap mic input built into the mixer.
So even if you provide a perfectly EQ'd, shaped and compressed separate microphone, they will always pull out their own, stab it into the garbage mic input installed in every DJ mixer currently available and proceed to remove every "high end" dome tweeter throughout the home. 

The main problem with using the mixer's input is that after you limit and control the output of it to protect the system from musical abuses, there's no gain headroom left for a talkover mic -usually the limiter just piles-on more gain reduction. 
All that limiting always results in the operators boosting the mic channel to the normally clipped and distorted, cupped-mic, yelled-into sound we all know and loathe.
Unfortunately once the vocalizing stops, the limiter opens back up and the mic feeds back hard!  Really hard and for a long time too -as all the happy drunk people have no idea what is going on and what they did wrong!

The only success I've ever had in dealing with this (and I've had to a lot over the years) Is to install a system that is so eye-wateringly loud and capable,  that the limiter is set so far beyond what any sane person drunk or sober would ever run the system at -and if they did it would be "limited" by local law enforcement long before damage occurs.
Usually such a system just kind of happens as an upgrade process after the client blows up the original design one or two times first.


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Craig Hauber
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chris georgiou

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Re: Volume Limiter for residential multi zone system
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2020, 05:57:45 PM »

Caleb has good inexpensive dsp recommendations.  Keep in mind compression/limiting won’t solve the problems created by square waves and clipping the DJ mixer.  A limiter could actually exacerbate the problem by someone pushing things harder when they don’t get a the response they expect.  In the end the only real safe solution is proper gain staging and operator training.

Ended up getting the MiniDSP 2x4; which settings would you recommend? The wall plate with stereo RCA jacks is about 100' away; the minidsp will be in the rack.

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MikeHarris

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Re: Volume Limiter for residential multi zone system
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2020, 01:22:21 AM »

can you find a way to skip RCA's ...unbalanced isnt gonna work at 100 ft.
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chris georgiou

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Re: Volume Limiter for residential multi zone system
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2020, 09:47:18 AM »

can you find a way to skip RCA's ...unbalanced isnt gonna work at 100 ft.

Not really; it was working fine with phones.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Volume Limiter for residential multi zone system
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2020, 09:47:18 AM »


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