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[Daniel Mauric]

I'm trying to pick an overhead mic for a rock band in clubs with not particularly good sounding rooms. IOW I'd like something that will not pick up too much of room and bleed from bass/guitar amps.
I started looking at cardioid SDC mics, but lately I wonder if perhaps something different might work too. For example one of the cheap figure-8 ribbon mics, or even a Beyerdynamic M201 dynamic hyper-cardioid.

Any thoughts ?

[Dave Jarrell]

I'm trying to pick an overhead mic for a rock band in clubs with not particularly good sounding rooms. IOW I'd like something that will not pick up too much of room and bleed from bass/guitar amps.
I started looking at cardioid SDC mics, but lately I wonder if perhaps something different might work too. For example one of the cheap figure-8 ribbon mics, or even a Beyerdynamic M201 dynamic hyper-cardioid.

Any thoughts ?

Do yourself a favor and don’t worry about an overhead.....

[Dave Jarrell]

Do yourself a favor and don’t worry about an overhead.....

What I really meant to say is that if the room sounds that bad don’t worry about an overhead....

[Daniel Mauric]

Do yourself a favor and don’t worry about an overhead.....

Hehe, I know what you mean, yes there is cymbal bleed in vocal mic, but it sounds bad, and fades in/out depending on singer singing/moving.
Also, band uses in-ears and with only kick and snare mic (especially when gated) there is no sense of space/ambience. So I do think it could help for in-ears more so than for FOH.

[Russell Ault]

Hehe, I know what you mean, yes there is cymbal bleed in vocal mic, but it sounds bad, and fades in/out depending on singer singing/moving.
Also, band uses in-ears and with only kick and snare mic (especially when gated) there is no sense of space/ambience. So I do think it could help for in-ears more so than for FOH.

I see that as really two separate problems. You can dedicate a mic or two as "room/ambience/audience" mics for the IEMs (also helpful if you make multi-track archival recordings). These are often cardioid SDCs located on the edge of the stage and and pointed out towards the audience.

For cymbal pickup, try close-micing. You need pretty low-sensitivity mics for this, but just about any suitable microphone placed directly under a cymbal and pointed up towards it will give you pretty decent isolation, especially when used with a severe high-pass filter. For a very clean look, you can even use lavs taped to the cymbal stands (of you can find very low-sense ones, that is).

-Russ

[Mark Scrivener]

SM58's, low and close to the cymbals. But if the room sounds that bad, then pumping overheads into the mains probably isn't going to help matters. If it is for recording, then close to the cymbals is what you want. SDC's are the usual goto's here, but dynamics will suffer the least bleed. And if the room sounds bad, a figure 8 is the last thing you want.

[Helge A Bentsen]

I'm in the other camp. If the room sounds bad, I reach for something with a good-sounding off-axis response since a lot of crap is coming in off-axis.
My personal mic kit contains DPA2011c for this reason. Excellent sounding mic on and off-axis.

[Chris Grimshaw]

Beyer MC930s get my vote. The polar pattern holds well across the frequency range, and they sound very natural.

You can alter the direct-to-reflected ratio in two ways:
- Use a different polar pattern - NB - polar patterns can vary considerably across the frequency range
- Change the distance from source to mic

FWIW, saying "dynamics avoid bleed" isn't strictly true. What's more likely happening is that the mic's pattern is more narrow than the nominal rating over some of the frequency range. ie, you've got a mic that's acting more like a super/hypercardioid.
SDCs tend to maintain their polar pattern pretty well. ie, you've got a cardioid across the range (or close). The result is the bleed that does come through sounds much more natural.

Other recommendations would include:
- Beyer M201TG. Excellent mic, decent pattern control, sounds good.
- Sennheiser e904 or e935. Both also sound good, and the pattern control is pretty good, too. The e904 is a bit of a gem, IMO, with that form-factor.
- A decent SDC. I've mentioned the Beyer MC930, but others are available.

Chris

[Michael Lascuola]

While viagra may help (LOL), I mic the toms from the top, and in bad rooms the cymbals come through fine.  I also don't use a gate on the snare in these situations.
If only we could exclusively work good rooms! 

[duane massey]

See Alice.......

[Dave Pluke]

For example one of the cheap figure-8 ribbon mics...

Any thoughts ?

Definitely NOT a ribbon/figure 8 pickup pattern, in that situation.  Unless you used a shield to attenuate the back side.  Even then...

SDC would be the way to go, in my book.  Consider mic'ing underneath the cymbals, rather than overhead, to limit bleed.

Dave

[Daniel Mauric]

Thanks everyone for the comments.
After some more research, I do have another question, it's a bit above my planned budget, but perhaps a single Beyer M160 could be a good choice.
It's a ribbon but hyper cardioid, and thus should have good off axis rejection. It's also a bit darker and adds color but allegedly this could be beneficial for taming cymbals.
Any thoughts on M160 or should I just go with one of cheaper SDC ?

[Caleb Dueck]

Thanks everyone for the comments.
After some more research, I do have another question, it's a bit above my planned budget, but perhaps a single Beyer M160 could be a good choice.
It's a ribbon but hyper cardioid, and thus should have good off axis rejection. It's also a bit darker and adds color but allegedly this could be beneficial for taming cymbals.
Any thoughts on M160 or should I just go with one of cheaper SDC ?

Personal opinion, but I want the most accurate sound from the source.  From there I can tweak as desired.  The exception are sources that have a "sound", which are typically electric guitar amps and kick drum. 

It never hurts to have multiple types of mics, and especially not just budget-buster level.  Good SDC mics are nearly universal, while good ribbons are more niche. 

[Justice C. Bigler]

Thanks everyone for the comments.
After some more research, I do have another question, it's a bit above my planned budget, but perhaps a single Beyer M160 could be a good choice.
It's a ribbon but hyper cardioid, and thus should have good off axis rejection. It's also a bit darker and adds color but allegedly this could be beneficial for taming cymbals.
Any thoughts on M160 or should I just go with one of cheaper SDC ?

We used 4 Beyer M130s close miced, mounted underneath the cymbals. Sounded pretty darn good and we have a couple of VERY hard hitting drummers.

[jamesheyser]

I'm trying to pick an overhead mic for a rock band in clubs with not particularly good sounding rooms. IOW I'd like something that will not pick up too much of room and bleed from bass/guitar amps.
I started looking at cardioid SDC mics, but lately I wonder if perhaps something different might work too. For example one of the cheap figure-8 ribbon mics, or even a Beyerdynamic M201 dynamic hyper-cardioid.

Any thoughts ?

Shure Beta 58's are amazing for this. I use them on small stages where bleed is an issue.  Bright and a tight pickup pattern.


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