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Author Topic: Question about routing for Behringer Xr18  (Read 661 times)

Jordan Barney

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Question about routing for Behringer Xr18
« on: June 29, 2020, 03:59:07 pm »

Hey all. Newbie here. So Ive prepared some backing tracks for my band. I plan on running them right out of the DAW in case I need to make adjustments to them on the fly. (We are a duo and rely on the backing tracks). I have the Behringer Xr18 currently set up to do this mostly.. Im using it as an interface. I was wondering if there was any kind of routing I could do so the click would only come through the Phones output but not the Mains L/R. I have the click on ch 14 and the backing tracks on 15 and 16. Thanks.
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Luke Geis

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Re: Question about routing for Behringer Xr18
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2020, 04:10:40 pm »

The only way I can think of to do that and keep it simple would be to run everything into a subgroup and un-route the subgroup to L/R. I would also then make it so that CH # 14 is also not routed to L/R. Then you can solo the subgroup you have and you will hear the track and click, or anything sent to the subgroup, and what goes out the L/R will be a reflection of that minus the click track.

To clarify:

1. Un-route CH#14 from L/R.

2. Create a subgroup that has everything you want in it and make sure the subgroup is NOT routed to L/R.

3. Solo the subgroup as your reference, but do all your mixing from the main mix window. You will hear the subgroup mix with the click in it, but the main mix that goes to FOH will not have the click in it.
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Jordan Barney

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Re: Question about routing for Behringer Xr18
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2020, 05:59:14 pm »

The only way I can think of to do that and keep it simple would be to run everything into a subgroup and un-route the subgroup to L/R. I would also then make it so that CH # 14 is also not routed to L/R. Then you can solo the subgroup you have and you will hear the track and click, or anything sent to the subgroup, and what goes out the L/R will be a reflection of that minus the click track.

To clarify:

1. Un-route CH#14 from L/R.

2. Create a subgroup that has everything you want in it and make sure the subgroup is NOT routed to L/R.

3. Solo the subgroup as your reference, but do all your mixing from the main mix window. You will hear the subgroup mix with the click in it, but the main mix that goes to FOH will not have the click in it.


Okay that sounds awesome. But could you clarify what you mean by subgroup? Thanks, again!
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Mac Kerr

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« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2020, 08:27:10 pm »

Hey all. Newbie here.

Please go to your profile and change the "Name" field to your real first and last name as required by the posting rules displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in the Site Rules and Suggestions in the Forum Announcements section, and on the registration page when you registered.

Mac
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Brian Adams

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Re: Question about routing for Behringer Xr18
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2020, 11:06:25 pm »

I think the best way to do this would be to use an IEM pack or headphone amp on a pair of aux outputs, using either a subgroup or pre or post-fade aux busses to feed it, depending on how you want it to act. Doing this, you can create a mix of whatever you want, separate from the main output.

Soloing the subgroup, as Luke mentioned, would also work instead of a headphone amp. You'd just have to remember to solo the subgroup again after you soloed something else, since the headphone output will default to the main mix.

The slight disadvantage of using a headphone amp is that you'd have to move your headphones in order to solo things. Probably not too much of an issue though. In any case, try it first by soloing the subgroup, and if that works for you, great. You can always add a headphone amp in the future if you want to.
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Landon Lewsaw

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Re: Question about routing for Behringer Xr18
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2020, 09:04:22 am »

You can have the headphone output be whatever you want.  It's the main L/R by default, but you can go into setup/routing and change the phones output from L/R to monitor.  Then in the outputs tab, change the monitor output from L/R to an aux (or pair of auxes for stereo).  Make yourself an aux mix with the click in it, and it won't go out the front.  Just make sure the click is only assigned to the aux mix.
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W. Mark Hellinger

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Re: Question about routing for Behringer Xr18
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2020, 11:40:25 am »


But could you clarify what you mean by subgroup?
Good question.  I'm a bit of a novice per the Behringer digital boards, but I'll offer my take on the matter: 

I don't believe the X Air mixer has (dedicated) "subgroups" per-say, but rather your X Air has "busses" that can be configured for use many different ways, and a subgroup type application is simply a term describing how a buss is configured for use.  "Subgroup" is a term from analogue FOH (primarily) mixing consoles where those boards had dedicated subgroups.  The subgroups existed so more than one input strip's post fader output could be assigned to a (any) subgroup (mix) and thus adjusted via a single subgroup fader into the mix, rather than adjusting each individual mic's fader every time the operator wants to adjust the multiple inputs volume going to the mix.  A common application would be assigning a number of (more than one) backing vocals (mics) to a subgroup so the operator can adjust the group of backing vocals' levels as a group going to the mix.  With your X Air, I believe it's a matter of assigning (routing) the desired input signals to one of the 1 thru 6 busses/AUX XLR outputs.  Your backing click-track application as you explained (what I understand) I'd suggest is seemingly more of a "monitor mix" type application.  "Monitor mixes" are typically "pre input strip fader" and are fed strictly to monitors, where subgroups mixes are typically "post input strip fader" and are typically intended to be sent to the main mix.  I'd say don't get hung-up on the term "Subgroup"... looking through the manual or poking around on your tablet for where the subgroup "thing" is... as the term is semantical. 

I'll also mention in an attempt to hopefully better clarify the concept:  Analogue FOH boards (for example) generally had two different types of busses:  There was a "mix buss" and separate aux busses.  The mix buss's function was to mix down the inputs to send to the main (FOH) mix.  A FOH board may or may-not have been equipped with "subgroups"... more expensive boards had subgroups of typically a minimum of 4 subgroups, maybe 8, maybe more.  The subgroups were "in-between" the strip outputs and the main output.  The operator could typically choose to assign strip outputs direct to the main mix or to subgroups to then go to the main mix.  The aux buss(es) were separate from the mix buss.  The aux buss's were intended to drive monitor mixes or route input signals to or thru FX devices.  "Better" boards had selectable aux functions via a button:  "Pre or post" (input fader) for example... typically "pre fader" for monitor applications, or "post fader" for FX applications.  Commonly operators would route an aux fed FX thru or "back" and into the mix via an input strip (for ease of use).  That was "then", this is now.  "Back then" the routing choices were limited to whatever circuits and accompanying accoutrements (knobs and switches) the board came equipped with and some cable patching possibly involved.  "Now" your digital board has "busses" that can be configured (programmed) for your application... being (nominally?) 6 programmable busses plus the two L & R mix busses on the X Air.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 01:06:11 pm by W. Mark Hellinger »
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Luke Geis

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Re: Question about routing for Behringer Xr18
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2020, 02:11:12 pm »

In the sends tab of a channel, you can configure the buss to be a subgroup. When selected as such it will act more or less like a second main L/R. The mix still follows what you do in the main mix portion of the mixer. This is why I was saying the simplest way I can think to do it is the way I mentioned. No external devices, no need to switch things around and once you have the desired buss soloed, you can go back to the main mix layer and do as you please.
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Dan Mortensen

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Re: Question about routing for Behringer Xr18
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2020, 08:19:47 pm »

It should be noted that the XR-18 mixer, and maybe or probably all of the X- Air series, does not have visible subgroups anywhere in the iPad no-cost Behringer app, but they are there in the tethered computer app and may be there with the purchased third party app.

So if someone using one of the latter two control methods mutes a subgroup and leaves it, and someone with only the Behringer app uses the same mixer later, all channels assigned to the muted subgroup are effectively non-functional and you won't be able to figure out why until you employ one of those latter two control methods.

I know that from very frustrating experience.
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Russell Ault

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Re: Question about routing for Behringer Xr18
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2020, 02:25:01 am »

It should be noted that the XR-18 mixer, and maybe or probably all of the X- Air series, does not have visible subgroups anywhere in the iPad no-cost Behringer app[...]

I don't have the app in front of me, but can't you just select the Bus that you're using as a sub-group into sends-on-fader mode using the selector buttons on the bottom right of the screen? That should bring up the master fader/mute for that Bus on the far right hand of the fader strip. Am I missing something?

-Russ
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Dan Mortensen

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Re: Question about routing for Behringer Xr18
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2020, 04:49:02 pm »

I don't have the app in front of me, but can't you just select the Bus that you're using as a sub-group into sends-on-fader mode using the selector buttons on the bottom right of the screen? That should bring up the master fader/mute for that Bus on the far right hand of the fader strip. Am I missing something?

-Russ

IIRC, a whole new section appeared in the computer control screen that looked like subgroups would look on a mixer; it was in addition to the 6 auxes. That section is not on the iPad Behringer app.
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Russell Ault

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Re: Question about routing for Behringer Xr18
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2020, 01:24:06 am »

IIRC, a whole new section appeared in the computer control screen that looked like subgroups would look on a mixer; it was in addition to the 6 auxes. That section is not on the iPad Behringer app.

If it was in addition to the six buses, are you referring to the DCAs? I believe there's a way to control those from the iPad app as well, but I'm not as sure about this (and again, I don't have the app in front of me to check).

Edit: Just looked through a couple of YouTube videos. There is access to the DCAs in the most recent version of the iPad app, but you might have to change to a different layer.

-Russ
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 04:21:03 pm by Russell Ault »
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Luke Geis

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Re: Question about routing for Behringer Xr18
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2020, 07:48:34 pm »

Ok, stop every one....

Step one: Open the app

Step two: Select a channel ( any actual input channel )

Step three: Select the sends tab in the upper portion of the screen

Step four: Be sure the Advanced tab is selected for the Sends view. It should have a blue highlighted color. When ADVANCED is selected you will see the bus sends, the effect sends, and in the far right, a row of selections for the bus setup. In, Pre EQ, Post EQ PRE, Post and SUB GROUP......

Step five: Select the desired bus send you want to make a change to. You will see a faint grey outline around the box of the selected Bus Send.

Step six: Select the Sub Group selection tab on that row of options on the right-hand side of the window. When you have selected the Sub Group tab, the bus that you have selected will change from a fader to a power/ on-off button in the middle of that sends box.

Step seven: When the Sub Group tab is selected for a bus send it is defaulted to OFF for all the potential channels. So press the power button once to turn it on. It will change from a blueish grey color to a brighter blue/teal color.

Step eight: In the far right of the window you will see your main bus selection row; Main, Bus 1-6, and Effect 1-4. Select the desired bus you just changed in the sends view from the channel strip. The fader view for that bus will change and you will see the bus send name underneath the solo button. Press the little colored window ABOVE the SOLO tab. In demo mode, the bus's are colored yellow. But you should see that your desired bus is also highlighted in the tab window on the far right. When you press the selection tab of the desired bus you will see the options window change from sends view to whatever the last view you had selected for the bus's. When you get to the bus options window you will then select the OUTPUT tab.

Step nine: By default, the bus should NOT be patched to the LR mix, but ensure that it is by toggling it on and off. Off is a light blueish grey color. If it is on it it will have a brighter blue/teal like color. The LR patching button is located in the middle of the output view under the PAN fader.

Step ten: Bring up the bus sends fader for your selected Sub Group and select the SOLO tab for that bus.
Step eleven: You should be able to turn channels on and off from a subgroup from the main mix view at this point, but if not you can select a channel from the main mix view and go to the sends tab and then turn it on in the subgroup. In either case, just be sure that each channel you desire to go into the subgroup has its power button for that subgroup set to on.

Some notes:

In demo mode the channels sends view does not change the bus to Sub Group for all of the channels and it has to be done for each channel. I am not sure how this works when connected to the actual XR18 etc. It can't be a subgroup for some channels and not others, so just confirm that any other selected channels also show a power button for the desired bus when you go to the sends view. Also, be sure that any channels you want to go to the subgroup also have the power button turned on. Below are a couple of pictures to help show what you are looking for.

Hopefully, this all makes sense. I don't own an Xair unit, so I am going off memory and the demo mode in the app. I know for a fact that the way I prescribe it will work for you. You can do it however you wish though as there are of course several other ways to do it. I think this is the easiest way just because there is no external gear needed and you don't have to reconfigure solo buses or other options to make it work. Take care all.

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Re: Question about routing for Behringer Xr18
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2020, 07:48:34 pm »


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