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Author Topic: Upgrading JBL SRX800 System  (Read 1150 times)

Kirk Olson

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Upgrading JBL SRX800 System
« on: June 26, 2020, 11:17:00 pm »

Currently running JBL SRX835's over SRX828's, two each per side.  Looking to upgrade to something with more clarity, while also hopefully simplifying setup.  Currently looking at RCF TTL6A over SUB9006, one each per side; adding additional subs in the future.  Everything I've read on here is that 1 - 9006 is about equal to 2 828's, and the TTL6A is a beast.  Looking for responses with real world experiences with these setups.
Also considering the HLD6A, 6 per side; but don't really want to deal with lifts and flying arrays, and don't want to do the "dash" arrays usually seen with this level gear. Any comparisons to the TTL6 would be appreciated.
Do mainly bar band type work, but lot's of outside street dances. Have some regional acts, as well as lower level national acts; have never had any complaints on gear at this level.
Thanks for any input or suggestions.
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Mike Santarelli

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Re: Upgrading JBL SRX800 System
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2020, 12:54:36 am »

I own both the the srx835/828 and ttl6a/9006. 

The srx is great for what it is but the rcf is a large step up IMO.  More clarity and precision and the 9006 goes lower and is more musical.

The ttl6a really opens up when you get it in the air.  Doubled up and flown itís an impressive system and can get scary loud.   

The cons are the weight.  Lifting a ttl6 requires two people for any sane person.  They are a pain to move around.  The trade off is they sound great and will out muscle a few small small array boxes. 

You might also want to look into Danley. I know I know.

I ran my first show tonight with a pair of sm80 and four th118xl and it may have been the most impressive mobile system Iíve used. The clarity and punch was downright impressive. It is also easier to deploy using nl4 cables and one power source.  My main reason for going this route was to simplify and it is already showing that benefit in leaps and bounds.

6 hdl Per side would be a solid system but rigging them up would not make things simpler.

A ttl6a over a 9006 is very good small system. It can cover some ground.  I used to have visions of stacking two ttl6a over a sub but that is not fun nor practical in most applications. The one thing that will make you tire of the ttl6a is the weight and size. Other than that itís a great combo. I would take a look at some of the Danley stuff.  An sm80 wonít get as loud as a ttl6a or have the force of it, but it will play as loud as an 835 and sound cleaner. 
« Last Edit: June 27, 2020, 01:03:56 am by Mike Santarelli »
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Caleb Dueck

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Re: Upgrading JBL SRX800 System
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2020, 07:41:15 am »

Look at the Danley SH46.  4 of them with a DNA20K is almost the same price as 4 of the TTL6A, but they are smaller, very loud, and you can tight pack 2, 3, or even 4 per side for wide coverage areas. 

I wouldn't consider the HDL6A.  A long enough line (say, 12 boxes) looks cool but they don't get loud.  I had a demo of 7-8 per hang, they sounded OK unless you turned it up, and the low-mids were weak.

With SH46's, plan on a bunch of TH118XL subs.  I've heard both but not side by side, TH118XL and 9006, and the 118XL just sound less muffled.  They also cost slightly less than the 9006's.

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Kirk Olson

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Re: Upgrading JBL SRX800 System
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2020, 03:10:53 pm »

Thanks for the input.  I have looked at the Danley, as well as DAS and other comparable systems. My main question would be how does a single TTL6 over a Single 9006 per side compare to two 835's over two 828's per side? I don't want to lose anything, or even move sideways, will this be a sonic improvement?
Want to stick with powered units, again keep it simple. Weight with the TTL6 may be somewhat of an issue, but nothing that cannot be overcome. The SRX system has served me quite well, but has always somehow left me wanting more.
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Caleb Dueck

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Re: Upgrading JBL SRX800 System
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2020, 04:39:59 pm »

My main question would be how does a single TTL6 over a Single 9006 per side compare to two 835's over two 828's per side? I don't want to lose anything, or even move sideways, will this be a sonic improvement?

RCF will be a good step up, also see Mike's post.  The potential issue dispersion - for wide events you'll need out fills, as you're going from roughly 120 degrees to 90 degrees horizontal.  The TTL6A is also tighter vertically, which is good for ground stack, but you'll want 2 per side, arrayed vertically, if you fly them.  Play with EASE Focus so you can see what this looks like with various scenarios. 

Subwoofers - the SRX sub uses lower cost ferrite drivers, and is intended to sound 'OK' at a very competitive price point.  The 9006 uses much better quality, neo drivers - and is intended to sound very good - as is reflected in the price. 

For the subs, if you're looking for self-powered dual 18's with neo drivers - also check out the Bassboss SSP218 and JTR's updated Captivator 218 Pro.  JTR doesn't have updated specs on their site yet, Jeff mentioned on their facebook page that the new drivers have 3-4 dB additional output vs the old drivers on their website.  Both of these subs play nice and deep, and both are priced better than the RCF, with JTR being the lowest priced.   
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Mike Santarelli

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Re: Upgrading JBL SRX800 System
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2020, 09:42:52 pm »

Id definitely say the 9006 is close to two 828 in terms of output and it sounds better. Lower, cleaner, and more musical all around.

The ttl6a will work better for a lot of things on its own because it does have a wider coverage pattern. One thing I could never get around was the comb filtering of the splayed 835. No matter how much experimentations were done it was always noticeable.

Itís hard to describe but the ttl6 is more refined and impactful. It is very smooth and at a distance sounds closer than it is. Again, the key to the ttl6a is getting it up in the air a little if possible. Weíve put them on larger heavy duty stands (250 capacity) by laying them on the sub and doing the tilt method. Ground stacking works but I like to get them up a little higher for tight crowds and events spread out in fields.

The srx is a capable rig and the rcf is going to be an expensive move. You will gain some and be happier Iím thinking.  It is definitely easier to mix on and more fun but at a cost.  I use my srx at local place i do weekly music for. It basically lives there until I need it.  Itís the rig I send out on rentals to get abused.

I would suggest finding someone who has the rcf system you are interested in and take a listen even if means a days travel.  Take your srx to compare.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2020, 11:50:57 pm by Mike Santarelli »
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Mike Santarelli

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Re: Upgrading JBL SRX800 System
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2020, 09:46:39 pm »

If you are ever in the Philadelphia area Iíd be happy to set up both for you to hear.


Kirk, I sent you a pm. 
« Last Edit: June 27, 2020, 09:54:34 pm by Mike Santarelli »
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Bob Rout

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Re: Upgrading JBL SRX800 System
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2020, 10:49:53 pm »

Not to hijack your thread but I'm on the same upgrade path as you.   Last year I upgraded my 4 SRX835p's to 2TTL6-A's. Best decision I ever made.  The SRX's were great when used within their limits.  For larger outdoor stuff they couldn't control the sound at a distance. Sounded harsh when at or close to limit.

I still have my 6 SRX828sp for subs, but I'm out of room in my trailer.  One TTL6-A will outrun 2-3 SRX828's subs.  Attached is picture from an outdoor cheer expo.  Sounded great, but I would have been happy with more low end.

I'd like to find a double 18 with equivalent or more output than 2 SRX828sp.  I've heard 8006's and really liked the sound but it was 10 of them.  I have no idea on direct comparison.  I've never heard the 9006.

I've also thought about getting TTS36-A's if I could get them used. I'm not sure how they compare to the 8006 or 9006.
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Jeff Lelko

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Re: Upgrading JBL SRX800 System
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2020, 11:36:59 pm »

Hi Kirk, here's my input given that I've had the same question in the back of my mind for the past couple years. 

*Disclaimer - I haven't heard the TTL6A in person, however I have gotten to hear a number of Danley boxes plus many flavors of industry-standard arrays.  I currently use QSC HPR on smaller jobs and Yorkville Unity on larger one.  I'm also a business owner, so my inventory decisions are driven by a business need as well as the resulting sound quality.

I would have no doubt that the TTL6A is a great box.  I'd love to hear it.  My only concern with it is that I see it as an "in between" box.  Bigger/better/louder than the average prosumer box but not in the league of larger format solutions.  While pole-mountable is nice, given the weight I'm sure it's a bit unwieldy to try that.  Even getting my 100 pound QSC HPR152i speakers and 80 pound Yorkville U15s up on stands is more painful now than it was 10 years ago...  Going heavier is going to mean lifts - at least for me.  The bigger question I ask is "Is the TTL6A enough?".  Though able to outperform anything that I currently own, as already mentioned it's essentially a 1-per-side speaker.  For the price tag I'd feel much better knowing that I have options to expand the upper end of the system if need be versus once again being boxed in from future growth.  "Going smaller" is easy and cheap enough, whereas adding headroom can be a very expensive venture if you're already at the upper limit of the product series.

I second the look into Danley as well as Fulcrum.  I'll say that I'm in the minority hear in that I wasn't impressed by the SM80 when I heard a live demo of it a few years ago.  Great for the size/weight/price, but not a stand-alone solution.  The SH series and Jericho boxes are a different story though.  Big and expensive, yes, but a very worthy and serious step up if your business case supports it.  The RCF solution you're looking at is upwards of a $30,000 investment, give or take, and when considering investments of that magnitude I want them to really count.  I just don't get that feeling with the TTL6A.

I asked the same question here a few years ago and just ended up getting more of what I already had to get me the extra headroom I needed.  Granted now my system is fully maxed-out and that any future upgrades will require me to revisit this question myself, but doing what I did was by far the cheapest and probably most appropriate solution without needing to retool my entire inventory.  Hope this helps and best of luck!

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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: Upgrading JBL SRX800 System
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2020, 06:19:16 am »

Looks like RCF has built-in some expansion by allowing the use of 2x TTL6A per side, but you've got to stack them vertically.

So long as the resulting ~7' tall mid-high speaker is elevated properly with a suitable pile of 2x18"s and plenty of straps are used, it seems like a viable way of adding more output without re-tooling.

The question, then, becomes this: will 2x TTL6A/side be a sufficient expansion path in the future, or is it likely that something even bigger is required?

Chris
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Jeff Lelko

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Re: Upgrading JBL SRX800 System
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2020, 07:00:58 am »

Looks like RCF has built-in some expansion by allowing the use of 2x TTL6A per side, but you've got to stack them vertically.

You can (hence my "essentially" disclaimer).  My issue with that is it only works if the added vertical coverage fits your deployment plan - similar to a constant curvature array - though some degree of adjustment is available here if you're using lifts.  I'd love to see it work as it's a very slick package!  For the price though I'm just not sold that it's the best bang to buck with the given limitations, but thankfully that's not my decision to make right now!     
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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: Upgrading JBL SRX800 System
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2020, 09:45:18 am »

Yeah, I see your point.

I am curious, though, about how it works in practice. It looks to me like RCF have two options for rigging a pair of TTL6A. One of them seems to be to splay the cabinets, which would certainly give wider vertical coverage. The other option puts the cabinets top-to-top and closely packed, which suggests to me they're hoping it'll sum as a coherent source.
I don't know if they've managed that, but if they have then I'd expect more output.

Chris
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John Schalk

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Re: Upgrading JBL SRX800 System
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2020, 12:38:48 pm »

My last band's PA consisted of  four EV QRx153 over four PX2181 subs (we rarely used all 4 stacks.)  The system was powerful, sounded good, and it was really fast to setup and strike.  However, it had one distinct disadvantage in that we didn't have any good options for deploying the top boxes when we lucked into a stage.  Think trailers or other "stages" which are just high enough to let you get your subs underneath, but not nearly high enough to allow you to set your top boxes on the deck and have them reach to the back of the listening area.  We were partly to blame in that we did not have two similarly sized and sturdy road cases that could be used to elevate the QRx speakers.  So my advice is, if you go with the TTL 6-A, to include plans for how you can get them up in the air without stacking them on your subs.  That way you can use different placements for your subs and not be locked into a L + R setup and the resulting power alley of bass.
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Kirk Olson

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Re: Upgrading JBL SRX800 System
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2020, 02:39:57 pm »

RCF does have the TTL/P/W4 series which helps with the ability to array, but at the cost of max SPL and 3-way box.  Of course no system checks all the boxes, just need to check the boxes that will cover 90%+ of my situations.  The main thing I was initially looking at was simplifying, cutting my cabinet count in half while increasing the quality of sound.  There are many systems that would allow me to do that, but at what cost....Currently in comes down to expandability and coverage, 90 degree will not cover some of the outside gigs, but will cover almost all my current street fair and bar band situations. Expanding the system would mean lifts, and if I have to go that route, might as well go line array, and on and on....but that isn't simplifying.  I am essentially a one man operation, with help mainly only for the grunt work.  I appreciate all the input
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Jeff Lelko

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Re: Upgrading JBL SRX800 System
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2020, 04:31:14 pm »

The main thing I was initially looking at was simplifying, cutting my cabinet count in half while increasing the quality of sound. 
...
I am essentially a one man operation, with help mainly only for the grunt work.

To me then this emphasizes the need to give the Danley SM80/TH118 solution a close look as well as the JTR options.  There are plenty of users of both here that can answer any questions you have.  Both are easily deployable by a single person without performing any dangerous lifting and are by far among the best in class right now for the SOS form factor.  Good luck!
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John Schalk

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Re: Upgrading JBL SRX800 System
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2020, 11:10:46 pm »

...just need to check the boxes that will cover 90%+ of my situations.  The main thing I was initially looking at was simplifying, cutting my cabinet count in half while increasing the quality of sound.  There are many systems that would allow me to do that, but at what cost....Currently in comes down to expandability and coverage, 90 degree will not cover some of the outside gigs, but will cover almost all my current street fair and bar band situations.
One winter I looked back our last two seasons with an eye to how often, in the summer, we had had gigs with stages that would allow us to do something other than a left/right stack.  The answer was sadly, not that often.  More than 90% of our shows were done with a single stack on each side of the stage.  We would add a center fill whenever we could and that really helped get the vocals on the dance floor (we were entirely on ears.)  It's not all bad.  When there isn't a defined stage, the classic left/right stack can define a proscenium in a way that helps separate the band from the audience.  And pretty much nothing is faster to setup than rolling in a sub, tipping it up on end, and throwing the tops up.  Good luck with your decision.  I should be preparing for an annual July 4th concert in the park event, but not this year:(
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Douglas R. Allen

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Re: Upgrading JBL SRX800 System
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2020, 05:29:14 am »

Looks like RCF has built-in some expansion by allowing the use of 2x TTL6A per side, but you've got to stack them vertically.

So long as the resulting ~7' tall mid-high speaker is elevated properly with a suitable pile of 2x18"s and plenty of straps are used, it seems like a viable way of adding more output without re-tooling.

The question, then, becomes this: will 2x TTL6A/side be a sufficient expansion path in the future, or is it likely that something even bigger is required?

Chris

   A few years back I watched this video and remember thinking for smaller shows the TTL6A did a good job full range with no subs. Maybe Mike Santarelli can chime in but it looks like the TTL6A may have a few more uses than a SM80 that may need a sub unless its pretty much vocal only. I don't see the SM80 used in small cubs with kick , bass guitar and keys without subs where a TTL6A a side should work fine. Getting as much use out of a box depending on your needs as always should be considered too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG6bB1AVTxc&t=548s

This second video is 2 over 3 subs. Looks like they are doing a good job. As you say the head stack system does look good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEDXPwkyPrY

Kindest Regards;
Douglas R. Allen
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Mike Pyle

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Re: Upgrading JBL SRX800 System
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2020, 04:01:25 pm »

If you are dead set on powered cabs, maybe also consider Bassboss AT212 tops over ZV28 subs.

https://www.bassboss.com/buy/powered-top-at212/

https://www.bassboss.com/buy/powered-subwoofer-zv28/


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Re: Upgrading JBL SRX800 System
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