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Author Topic: Corona safety for 1 wireless mic, many users application  (Read 741 times)

Loren Miller

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Corona safety for 1 wireless mic, many users application
« on: May 22, 2020, 01:17:49 pm »

TLDR: Will this work in a live setting that is properly implemented? Shure Mx202 with R189 mini-shotgun capsule into QLXD body pack. On a stand pointed 5' high to an X on the floor that is 3' away?

Context: Corporate Q&A, Wedding Toasts/Speeches, normally a Wireless HH is passed around or on a stand, that won't work now.

So I am horrified and also excited that Ohio is opening up, I want to do this as safely as possible not only for me, but for guests. I've thought about Disposable Mic covers, but guests still hold the mic, or breathe on it if using a stand and it looks weird.

Thought about using my Senn 416 Shotgun, but I've never used it in a live setting and it is an expensive mic to have boomed up with people around.

Then I thought about using a choir mic, I've begrudgingly used those much more than I've wanted to on live stages with monitors at 11 and it worked.

Looked at the Mx202 and it has a TA4 which fits snugly on my QLXD body pack, and it is a metal pack so it should ground it. They also have a new Mini-Shotgun capsule (r189) that might get me some more distance. The Idea is to have this pointed at a dedicated spot that is clearly marked so anyone who needs to can step on the gaffe-tape X and proceed to talk way longer than needed.

Anyone used this combination before?
Other than Feedback and possibly heavy EQ, what are the potential downfalls?
How are you going to implement safe Mic technique in the future?

Thanks,
Loren
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Keith Broughton

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Re: Corona safety for 1 wireless mic, many users application
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2020, 02:41:37 pm »

Even with a shotgun mic, people talking 3' away with a live sound system is going to be a challenge.
At least a static position will allow you to EQ for best GBF but still...tricky.
How do you stop people from stepping up and getting close to the mic?
The 416 would be a great option but. as you say, a lot of $$ around people drinking!
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Corona safety for 1 wireless mic, many users application
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2020, 05:42:50 pm »

The virus doesn't jump off the mic/windscreen.  If people don't touch the mic with their hands, lips, tongue, eyes, or nasal cavities they are much less likely to be infected via the microphone itself.

A much bigger issue is the crowd itself, and the proximity of those giving the toasts, speeches, etc to each other, their relative level of ability to follow instructions (inebriation factor), and to practice distancing and appropriate hygiene.

You can 'insist' that clients use safe techniques, but what are YOU going to do when they don't?  If you want clients, you'll keep your mouth shut and let them infect each other like sailors on shore leave sharing a hooker.  IF you tell them no, they'll dispute the bill, refuse to pay, reverse a credit card charge, or just make you look bad on social media.  After I give the client my "edumacational speech", if they want to disregard it - I'm not the health dept.  They can screw themselves and their families and friends all they want.  My mics will go in a zip bag for sanitizing upon return to the shop.

It's your duty of care to supply them with mics cleaned prior to load in, and proper instructions; it's not your duty to risk your own health or safety by attempting to enforce rules when faced with BrideZilla or MoBZ (Mother of BrideZilla), an angry groom or best man or irate guests.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 05:50:01 pm by Tim McCulloch »
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George Friedman-Jimenez

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Re: Corona safety for 1 wireless mic, many users application
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2020, 06:09:48 pm »

True, viruses don't jump, they are not even alive. But speaking loudly to be heard, even without coughing, can easily generate droplets that travel more than 3 feet and can land on the mic. If there is one asymptomatic infectious person among those who speak at the event, anyone who inadvertently touches the mic with their hand after that person and does not disinfect their hand immediately afterwards will be at risk of infection.
If there is no coronavirus around the entire state or county, this won't happen, but weddings and regional/national corporate events by nature attract folks from out of town, with unknown exposures and infection avoidance behavior, who may have traveled by air or other public transit from higher risk areas days earlier. No one is going to screen guests at the door. This is not just a trivial problem as we figure out how to return safely to producing live group events.

So here is a technical question. Is there a simple way for each person who speaks to use his or her own smart phone with bluetooth as their own personal mic to connect to the PA, each on a separate mixer channel?
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 06:20:11 pm by George Friedman-Jimenez »
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brian maddox

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Re: Corona safety for 1 wireless mic, many users application
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2020, 06:59:44 pm »

.....

So here is a technical question. Is there a simple way for each person who speaks to use his or her own smart phone with bluetooth as their own personal mic to connect to the PA, each on a separate mixer channel?

I just had the worst tingling down my spine as i realized that if you thought of this, someone else will and i will inevitably be asked to do this in the future.

Thankfully, the answer to this is a hard NO for several reasons.  Most basic is that Bluetooth is a two device handshake protocol, so the only way to get sound out of a bluetooth device would be for them to each pair their bluetooth headset to YOUR device that was then plugged into your mixing console.  There are such devices, but they ain't cheap, and you'd be the one footing the bill.  Also, Bluetooth is designed to be a short distance protocol and as such is not reliable more than a few feet away.

But wait there's more.  The latency that is inherent in Bluetooth would be a significant issue.

Lastly, i don't even want to imagine what it would be like to have to try to make a dozen different bluetooth headsets on a dozen different people sound anything even approaching not terrible.

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Loren Miller

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Re: Corona safety for 1 wireless mic, many users application
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2020, 07:08:33 pm »

It's your duty of care to supply them with mics cleaned prior to load in, and proper instructions; it's not your duty to risk your own health or safety by attempting to enforce rules when faced with BrideZilla or MoBZ (Mother of BrideZilla), an angry groom or best man or irate guests.

Good point, I might buy a dozen Behringer (cringe) xm8500 (sm58 knockoff, actually a really good mic for $25) open it up fresh in front of the client, throw it on a stand at a generic height and toss it at the end of the day?
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Corona safety for 1 wireless mic, many users application
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2020, 07:52:27 pm »

Good point, I might buy a dozen Behringer (cringe) xm8500 (sm58 knockoff, actually a really good mic for $25) open it up fresh in front of the client, throw it on a stand at a generic height and toss it at the end of the day?

This ain't The Andromeda Strain, we don't need a nuclear self-destruct option...  Cleaning and reasonable disinfection can be achieved with common products and sanitizers.  Consult the equipment manufacturer for guidance on products that will not damage their stuff.  That said, if it makes your customers feel better about you using a brand new mic (and letting them keep it), go for it if you can recover the cost.  If it helps book a gig, you can use alcohol prep pads on the mic grille and body after each speaker steps away - wear gloves (one use only) and a mask.

Remember - the mic diaphragm may get some virus particles on it, but they're not leaving.  It's the touchable surfaces of things likely to accumulate exposure that are of a concern.  In the ideal world where nobody touched the mic, where nobody got their lips on the grille or windscreen, all we'd be concerned with is a simple soap/water or isopropyl alcohol (70% will do), quarternary ammoniums (surface sanitizers used in the food industry), phenyl phenols, and hydrogen peroxide in sufficient concentration, or bleach & water -  as indicated by the equipment manufacturer as not damaging to their product(s).  Remember that the mic stand and clip will need to be cleaned, too, and if you use a wired mic, the connector and about 6 - 8ft of cable should be cleaned as well.

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Dave Garoutte

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Re: Corona safety for 1 wireless mic, many users application
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2020, 08:29:25 pm »

Also, the virus doesn't stay viable forever, so anything missed in disinfection will be inactive after a couple of weeks.
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Corona safety for 1 wireless mic, many users application
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2020, 10:59:58 pm »

I just had the worst tingling down my spine as i realized that if you thought of this, someone else will and i will inevitably be asked to do this in the future.

Thankfully, the answer to this is a hard NO for several reasons.  Most basic is that Bluetooth is a two device handshake protocol, so the only way to get sound out of a bluetooth device would be for them to each pair their bluetooth headset to YOUR device that was then plugged into your mixing console.  There are such devices, but they ain't cheap, and you'd be the one footing the bill.  Also, Bluetooth is designed to be a short distance protocol and as such is not reliable more than a few feet away.

But wait there's more.  The latency that is inherent in Bluetooth would be a significant issue.

Lastly, i don't even want to imagine what it would be like to have to try to make a dozen different bluetooth headsets on a dozen different people sound anything even approaching not terrible.

The latency in Bluetooth is fine for phone conversations, I donít see it as the limiting factor, but single device at a time is.  I think there are new BT devices on the horizon that will allow multiple pairings, but probably for listen only.

Another thought would be a Zoom conference they call into from their phone.

Mac
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Eric Snodgrass

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Re: Corona safety for 1 wireless mic, many users application
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2020, 12:41:06 am »

A foam windscreen is your friend.  Use it in this situation to give extra protection to the mic.  Foam windscreens are easy to clean. 
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Kevin Maxwell

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Re: Corona safety for 1 wireless mic, many users application
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2020, 09:26:32 am »

If you want people to call in you could do it like a call in show. Have a number that is announced and hook up only that phone to the sound system. Have someone clearing the calls and announcing who we have on the phone and then bring them up in the sound system.

It will be hilarious listening to people trying to talk when they hear themselves with that amount of latency delay. Like trying to speak with a long echo delay on the system.   

I was always told that Long shotguns mics are usually a poor choice for indoor use, especially when being feed to a sound reinforcement system. The short ones are a little bit better. It is just how the porting for rejection works when it hears the sound returning to itself.   

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Larry Sheehan

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Re: Corona safety for 1 wireless mic, many users application
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2020, 10:49:17 am »

Putting a lectern between the mic and the speaker might enforce some distancing....
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dave briar

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Re: Corona safety for 1 wireless mic, many users application
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2020, 11:29:17 am »

Also, the virus doesn't stay viable forever, so anything missed in disinfection will be inactive after a couple of weeks.
I believe itís three days actually with greater than 90% of the virus dead after 24 hours.
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Scott Helmke

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Re: Corona safety for 1 wireless mic, many users application
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2020, 02:24:59 pm »

I would imagine when this comes up we'll have several channels on the show, with each microphone being taken back from the person speaking while the next person is handed a freshly sanitized microphone.
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Russell Ault

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Re: Corona safety for 1 wireless mic, many users application
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2020, 03:17:08 pm »

[...]
If there is no coronavirus around the entire state or county, this won't happen, but weddings and regional/national corporate events by nature attract folks from out of town, with unknown exposures and infection avoidance behavior, who may have traveled by air or other public transit from higher risk areas days earlier. No one is going to screen guests at the door. This is not just a trivial problem as we figure out how to return safely to producing live group events.
[...]

Obviously things are a bit different for corporate (but only a bit), but for a wedding, why are you worried about the mic? My understanding is that, even with proper spacing, spending a couple hours in an enclosed room with a bunch of other people of unknown infection status opens the door for significant transmission all on its own, especially if there is food involved. If anyone in the room isn't wearing at least a cloth mask then the mic is probably the least of their worries (and, of course, if everyone is wearing a mask then the mic probably isn't a big issue).

I believe itís three days actually with greater than 90% of the virus dead after 24 hours.

It depends on the surface. According to this article in the New England Journal of Medicine 90% after 24 hours is actually close to the worst-case scenario, with many surfaces (including stainless steel) showing >99% death in that same time period. Cardboard will get you down to 90% in just a couple of hours.

-Russ
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brian maddox

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Re: Corona safety for 1 wireless mic, many users application
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2020, 05:03:01 pm »

The latency in Bluetooth is fine for phone conversations, I donít see it as the limiting factor, but single device at a time is.  I think there are new BT devices on the horizon that will allow multiple pairings, but probably for listen only.

Another thought would be a Zoom conference they call into from their phone.

Mac

That last idea sounds interesting.

Although I think in all cases the latency is still gonna be problematic for people in the same room with their amplified selves.
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Lou Kohley

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Re: Corona safety for 1 wireless mic, many users application
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2020, 06:02:51 pm »

Since everyone is accustomed to streaming, would it be possible to setup a camera and mic in a "clean room" and then pipe audio and video back to the guests.

I know you may not carry video on a wedding gig, also it does remove the crowd interaction.
But gain before feedback would be a non issue no matter where the mic is.

LOU
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Corona safety for 1 wireless mic, many users application
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2020, 04:40:55 am »

This ain't The Andromeda Strain, we don't need a nuclear self-destruct option...  Cleaning and reasonable disinfection can be achieved with common products and sanitizers. 


Got some squeeze boy?
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Jason Glass

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Re: Corona safety for 1 wireless mic, many users application
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2020, 03:49:09 pm »


Got some squeeze boy?

Aah, so refreshing on a hot summer's day.   ;D



What's really scary, for us Crichton fans, are the striking similiarities between COVID-19 and Andromeda Strain regarding vascular & coagulation disorders.  Sheesh!

Tim McCulloch

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Re: Corona safety for 1 wireless mic, many users application
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2020, 06:34:31 pm »

Aah, so refreshing on a hot summer's day.   ;D



What's really scary, for us Crichton fans, are the striking similiarities between COVID-19 and Andromeda Strain regarding vascular & coagulation disorders.  Sheesh!

Something to sip while Project Scoop lands and the good Doctor opens it...

Crichton was a physician by training, IIRC.

Order up "Cautery."
« Last Edit: June 13, 2020, 06:41:43 pm by Tim McCulloch »
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Jordan Wolf

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Re: Corona safety for 1 wireless mic, many users application
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2020, 06:15:52 pm »

So here is a technical question. Is there a simple way for each person who speaks to use his or her own smart phone with bluetooth as their own personal mic to connect to the PA, each on a separate mixer channel?
CrowdMics makes one such solution; I know thereís another, but I canít recall what itís called. I have only seen it with built-in mics, but Iíd assume that a bluetooth-tethered headset could work as well...whether it sounds good is up for debate.
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Re: Corona safety for 1 wireless mic, many users application
¬ę Reply #20 on: June 16, 2020, 06:15:52 pm ¬Ľ


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