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Author Topic: Noise and buzz from house lights affecting guitars and basses  (Read 514 times)

Henry Cohen

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Re: Noise and buzz from house lights affecting guitars and basses
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2020, 12:19:36 pm »

LED lights can put out RF hash, the cheaper the light, the more RF.

"Ding, ding, ding; we have a winner!"

Cheap LED lighting fixtures are notorious for emitting significant RFI and even EMI, and field strength of the RFI/EMI increases geometrically with the number of sources (bulbs) in the space. Cheap LED bulbs, especially those designed as florescent tube replacements, have taken down 911 call centers, LMR dispatch centers and render M2M and IoT devices useless. The higher quality bulbs (yes, that means more expensive) are designed and manufactured such that spurious emissions are essentially non-existent. Cree is a very good brand as they also have an RF chip division so they know first hand the havoc LED lighting can cause. I believe Phillips is also good in this regards.

And finally, lest we forget that a wire in the air, including steel bass guitar strings, is also known as an antenna. Given the average length of a bass/guitar neck, those antennas, er, strings, are basically tuned for the VHF band; the very band in which cheap LED bulbs throw out the most hash. 
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 12:23:31 pm by Henry Cohen »
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Geri O'Neil

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Re: Noise and buzz from house lights affecting guitars and basses
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2020, 12:49:53 pm »

"Ding, ding, ding; we have a winner!"

Cheap LED lighting fixtures are notorious for emitting significant RFI and even EMI, and field strength of the RFI/EMI increases geometrically with the number of sources (bulbs) in the space. Cheap LED bulbs, especially those designed as florescent tube replacements, have taken down 911 call centers, LMR dispatch centers and render M2M and IoT devices useless. The higher quality bulbs (yes, that means more expensive) are designed and manufactured such that spurious emissions are essentially non-existent. Cree is a very good brand as they also have an RF chip division so they know first hand the havoc LED lighting can cause. I believe Phillips is also good in this regards.

And finally, lest we forget that a wire in the air, including steel bass guitar strings, is also known as an antenna. Given the average length of a bass/guitar neck, those antennas, er, strings, are basically tuned for the VHF band; the very band in which cheap LED bulbs throw out the most hash.

Wow, Henry, thanks so much for the info. The info about the bass strings is spot dead on. As well as these basses are built and shielded, there's no shielding the pickups from the strings, they are kinda the point of being there, LOL. This is great to know. It's possible that I'll run into this again.

And now comes the part we all love about this business....Telling my bud and his church information that they won't like and don't want to hear.... ;D ;D Shields up!
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 12:52:38 pm by Geri O'Neil »
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Art Welter

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Re: Noise and buzz from house lights affecting guitars and basses
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2020, 04:37:04 pm »

And now comes the part we all love about this business....Telling my bud and his church information that they won't like and don't want to hear.... ;D ;D Shields up!
Geri,
Worth checking the light circuits individually, there may only certain zones that are putting out the "hash". Just one LED light not designed for dimming that was mistakenly installed in the house lighting system could do it.

Hope for the best!

Art
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Don T. Williams

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Re: Noise and buzz from house lights affecting guitars and basses
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2020, 05:08:18 pm »

+1 for what Henry said.  Most of the name brand (Cree, Osram,) replacement lamps don't seem to have much problem, but I've experienced and had customers experience noise and RF problems from "ebay" or other less or unknown LED lamps.  I had one church that "upgraded" using LED's ordered on line and none of their wireless systems would work with the LED's on.  The dimmable versions can really be bad.  I'm sure you are aware that unfiltered or under-filtered SCR dimmers can produce a lot of noise even with incandescent lamps.  One other strange electrical problem I seen is bad MOV type surge protectors.  In a attempt to protect all the electronics, I've had churches plug every piece of electronics into MOV surge protectors or strips and then have issues with amps going into protect and wireless systems not working.  High quality installed whole building surge protection (like Lyntec) don't have this problem, but it is expensive insurance.  Finally, don't set a DI box on top of a Bass amp anywhere near the power transformer.  Some will hum loudly.
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Geri O'Neil

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Re: Noise and buzz from house lights affecting guitars and basses
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2020, 11:24:45 am »

Thanx, Don, Henry, Art, JR and others that have offered help and ideas.

I have some more pieces to the puzzle at my bud's church. Here's the LED replacement lamps they installed and apparently, the dimmers in use....

I've not heard of this brand of replacement LED lamp. Should they replace the lamps with known quality lamps first to see if the noise is reduced or eliminated before going further?

Thanx,
G
« Last Edit: May 24, 2020, 11:33:57 am by Geri O'Neil »
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Noise and buzz from house lights affecting guitars and basses
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2020, 12:47:39 pm »

Thanx, Don, Henry, Art, JR and others that have offered help and ideas.

I have some more pieces to the puzzle at my bud's church. Here's the LED replacement lamps they installed and apparently, the dimmers in use....

I've not heard of this brand of replacement LED lamp. Should they replace the lamps with known quality lamps first to see if the noise is reduced or eliminated before going further?

Thanx,
G
A simple experiment is to listen to guitar interference while adjusting the suspect lamp dimmer... If it is the guilty party the noise will change with dimmer level.

JR
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Geri O'Neil

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Re: Noise and buzz from house lights affecting guitars and basses
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2020, 01:17:04 pm »

A simple experiment is to listen to guitar interference while adjusting the suspect lamp dimmer... If it is the guilty party the noise will change with dimmer level.

JR

That was done over a week ago, with the bass on a stand at the bassistís position and noise at full offensive with house lighting at 100% and zero noise with house lights at zero (controlled by the controller and dimming).
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Noise and buzz from house lights affecting guitars and basses
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2020, 03:00:34 pm »

That was done over a week ago, with the bass on a stand at the bassistís position and noise at full offensive with house lighting at 100% and zero noise with house lights at zero (controlled by the controller and dimming).
OK either lights or the controller.

Others here are more expert so I'll tap out now...

Good Luck

JR
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Steven Cohen

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Re: Noise and buzz from house lights affecting guitars and basses
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2020, 03:10:01 pm »

As others have stated, the least problematic consumer LEDs are made by Cree and Philips. How many lamps total for the house light system? If under 10 or so and they are not too difficult to change, I would change them to Cree or Philips and see if the issue goes away.


 
Thanx, Don, Henry, Art, JR and others that have offered help and ideas.

I have some more pieces to the puzzle at my bud's church. Here's the LED replacement lamps they installed and apparently, the dimmers in use....

I've not heard of this brand of replacement LED lamp. Should they replace the lamps with known quality lamps first to see if the noise is reduced or eliminated before going further?

Thanx,
G
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: Noise and buzz from house lights affecting guitars and basses
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2020, 09:07:23 pm »

Remove them one by one to see if is a specific one or all.
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Re: Noise and buzz from house lights affecting guitars and basses
¬ę Reply #19 on: May 24, 2020, 09:07:23 pm ¬Ľ


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