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Author Topic: Behringer NX6000  (Read 1605 times)

Jack Hawkins

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Re: Behringer NX6000
« Reply #50 on: May 23, 2020, 04:50:30 pm »

Actually I think I might have a VST plugin it's called 'LoudnessAnalyzer' and is a Melda Production VST plugin. It says 'Crest' in it.
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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: Behringer NX6000
« Reply #51 on: May 23, 2020, 04:51:41 pm »

I picked any old track but like I said some tracks have bass notes 1-2 seconds long, one track I play sometimes is Bukem & Peshay - 19.5 it was bass notes as low as 19.5hz. But anyway, how do you find the crest factor of a track?

Jack, try the track I mentioned above for something that'll cause things to struggle.


Daniel, I suppose that the current for hours at a time might need to stay below 10A-ish for long-term heat issues, but I have an electric kettle that pulls 3KW out of the wall continuously for a few minutes at a time. Never a problem. Given the dynamic range of most music, I can't see a standard 13A supply having many problems - so long as there's a sensible amount of amplifier plugged into it.

A single 13A is never going to run a big rack of Macrotechs up to full power. A couple of iNukes playing not-sine-waves? Should be just fine.

Chris
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Daniel Levi

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Re: Behringer NX6000
« Reply #52 on: May 23, 2020, 06:35:48 pm »

Jack, try the track I mentioned above for something that'll cause things to struggle.


Daniel, I suppose that the current for hours at a time might need to stay below 10A-ish for long-term heat issues, but I have an electric kettle that pulls 3KW out of the wall continuously for a few minutes at a time. Never a problem. Given the dynamic range of most music, I can't see a standard 13A supply having many problems - so long as there's a sensible amount of amplifier plugged into it.

A single 13A is never going to run a big rack of Macrotechs up to full power. A couple of iNukes playing not-sine-waves? Should be just fine.

Chris

Yes for most uses and for short term high current loads/peaks it's fine, just putting out that running at more than say 10A for a long time can result in significant heating of the plug, I believe mikeselectricstuff has done videos talking about this, it's also why electric car chargers with UK plugs can only draw 10A, and even then the plug has built in temperature sensing.

As for how long it can take for a plug to heat up, as I have said our carpet cleaner at work probably draws about 2.5kW and can heat up the plug on the end of a 30M extension relatively quickly (and has previously had a plug melt on it), and this has a relatively new properly wired duraplug (I know I wired it myself, even used bootlace ferrules).

As for why some plugs are better than others?, Part of this might be due to tolerances in the plug/socket and in some cases tarnishing of the plus pins, to that poin(I have had items fail a PAT initially because of a tarnished earth pin and had to clean the earth pin to get it to pass.

As for keeping it all safe, simply give the plug a feel every now and then, if it heats up significantly then you know to split the load between multiple wall sockets.
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Luke Geis

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Re: Behringer NX6000
« Reply #53 on: May 24, 2020, 12:30:50 am »

Something that wasn't really touched on was your processing. Your subs are probably not really good for anything much below 35hz and a typical starting point crossover for the subs is 80hz. I highly suggest using a Hi-Pass filter, crossover, or some other form of a steep low cut filter at 35hz in order to save the subs from trying to reproduce frequencies it just isn't going to. Reducing the bandwidth to the subs can help quite a bit in freeing up headroom in the amp and of course reduces the potential for gross abuse of the drivers due to negligence or mistakes.

As you can probably already tell, the majority of us are on board for the NX6000. It will move as much air as your sub is capable of and the available power you have from the venue may also be a limiting factor. If you only get 2 outlets, you will have a tough time running 4 subs and 2 tops to near full potential. It's not just the amps, but what else is on that circuit. Lights, your mixer, teh coffee maker, who knows. You can generally fit two amplifiers on 1 circuit if they are under 10 amps of full current draw, but this also assumes they are the only thing on the circuit. I have had instances where a 100' cable and a circuit that was shared among a couple other things would start to brown out under heavy bass hits. Get what you get sometimes :)
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Jack Hawkins

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Re: Behringer NX6000
« Reply #54 on: May 24, 2020, 07:05:02 am »

Something that wasn't really touched on was your processing. Your subs are probably not really good for anything much below 35hz and a typical starting point crossover for the subs is 80hz. I highly suggest using a Hi-Pass filter, crossover, or some other form of a steep low cut filter at 35hz in order to save the subs from trying to reproduce frequencies it just isn't going to. Reducing the bandwidth to the subs can help quite a bit in freeing up headroom in the amp and of course reduces the potential for gross abuse of the drivers due to negligence or mistakes.

As you can probably already tell, the majority of us are on board for the NX6000. It will move as much air as your sub is capable of and the available power you have from the venue may also be a limiting factor. If you only get 2 outlets, you will have a tough time running 4 subs and 2 tops to near full potential. It's not just the amps, but what else is on that circuit. Lights, your mixer, teh coffee maker, who knows. You can generally fit two amplifiers on 1 circuit if they are under 10 amps of full current draw, but this also assumes they are the only thing on the circuit. I have had instances where a 100' cable and a circuit that was shared among a couple other things would start to brown out under heavy bass hits. Get what you get sometimes :)

I have a dbmark XCA26+ loudspeaker management system I used to have a Driverack PA2 but sound quality wasn't good. Wharfedale reccomend the high pass filter for the subs to be at 30hz so it's set to 30hz on my loudspeaker management system. I have the crossover point between my subs and mid/highs set to 90hz.
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Luke Geis

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Re: Behringer NX6000
« Reply #55 on: May 24, 2020, 07:10:19 pm »

You're looking good on the DSP side then, With your mains being a 15" model, you can probably even reduce the crossover point to below 80hz if you need to get more mileage out of them. Again, the lower the bandwidth they have to reproduce, the more you can generally get out of them.
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Bill Hornibrook

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Re: Behringer NX6000
« Reply #56 on: May 24, 2020, 09:00:46 pm »

Based on the type of music Jack is into, I'd be inclined to run the crossover point higher than usual. Both his examples appear to be old school underground tracks from 25 years ago - when scoops ruled the clubs. Producers would pitch track basslines up to an octave higher than today so they would just boom through scoops.

With that in mind, I'd start crossing over somewhere around 120-125 to preserve the cohesiveness of the bass.
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Jack Hawkins

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Re: Behringer NX6000
« Reply #57 on: Yesterday at 04:51:20 am »

Based on the type of music Jack is into, I'd be inclined to run the crossover point higher than usual. Both his examples appear to be old school underground tracks from 25 years ago - when scoops ruled the clubs. Producers would pitch track basslines up to an octave higher than today so they would just boom through scoops.

With that in mind, I'd start crossing over somewhere around 120-125 to preserve the cohesiveness of the bass.

Tthat may have been true for people doing free parties or small dance music parties but I used to go to raves  and hear the tracks above on sound systems like Martin Audio F2 with WSX subs, Turbosound Floodlight with the TSW721 subs, JBL SR series with the awesome SR4719 subs and the bass from that era of old rave music didn't hit you in the chest so much it wrenched the bottom of your stomach so although those two tracks might sound indicative of the era they weren't. I just picked those two tracks. There were so many tracks back then that hit very low in your stomach and made people sick. My friend Gary was sick because of the depth of the sub bass back as we walked past a row two subs high of horn loaded 18" subs loaded with EV's EVX180. The boxes were absolutely massive. My god you could feel any food you'd eaten in the last two hours trying to make it's way out. I know the lower the the frequencies the lower it hits in your stomach. Som of the sub bass was so low during breaks in the music the rave was completely quiet as all pianos and sounds in the track stopped and it was only the sub bass. You could hear a pin drop apart from the place rattling and your stomach being rumbled. That as far as I know was sub bass so low you had trouble hearing it but could feel it and the whole rave was rattling like hell. Then obviously the rest of the sounds woulod come back in.

But my point is most of the sub bass from back then was below 50hz, quite a lot of it was around 20-30hz as the song artists we talked to back then told us they made it on their Atari ST and Amiga computers in their bedrooms at 16bit/44.1khz, lol.

By the way what limiter settings should I use? I have an app that can calculate the settings but it doesn't say wheteher I should input peak power handling of the speakers or RMS power handling, they're only peak limiters so I figured it'd be peak power handling i'd have to put in right? Plus I don't know what attack and release settings to use, it seems to differ massively with frequency.
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Luke Geis

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Re: Behringer NX6000
« Reply #58 on: Yesterday at 05:06:23 pm »

These days, regardless of musical genre, I try and run the sub's crossover as low as possible. Three major reasons:

1. Increased headroom as mentioned before.

2. Reduced co-location. Humans have a tough time determining where signals emanate from at frequencies below about 80hz. So Having significant content that can be more easily located from the subs to me, sounds less appealing. I.E. I want the music energy to appear to be coming from the mains, the fact that there is significant low-frequency content that seems to be coming from the mains is the icing on the cake.

3. Reduction in phase issues. The lower the sub's crossover, the more space and time you can work with between the tops and mains. It also helps because it is much easier/more apparent to hear the phase issues at lower frequencies.

A fourth reason is more subjective I suppose. I don't like subs running high crossover points because I think they sound tubby, hollow, woody, and unnatural. I tend to desire systems where the subs are treated more as a separate impact or feel kind of system. I want the mains doing the majority of the work.

As to limiter settings, there are a lot of depends. Depending on the quality of the limiter, the type it is, and if it has multiple stages or settings for different tasks, it can be done set up for long term use, short term oopsies, or simply peak level management. You really have to understand your goal and your operating standards to get it dialed in. There are a million ways to set it up and not all will do what you think they will.
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Re: Behringer NX6000
« Reply #58 on: Yesterday at 05:06:23 pm »


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