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[Jack Hawkins]

Does anyone know the real world continuous average power output into 4 ohms of the Behringer NX6000? I know the specs Behringer are peak ratings and what they call RMS rating is a burst rating. I've seen some measured tests online stating it can only output 1,200 watts continuous into 4 ohms and 1,800-2,000 watts burst. I'm wondering which would sound the best running 1,600 continuous rated subs between the Behringer NX6000 and the QSC RMX4050HD one sub per channel.

[Chris Grimshaw]

IIRC, it was something like 1800w/ch into 4ohm for short-ish durations. If you keep that up for a while, you'll pop the breaker on the back of the amp. By that, we're talking continuous sine tones for 10+ seconds IIRC.

Running within clip, I wouldn't expect a huge difference between those amps. The size, price and weight difference, plus the option of DSP, would probably make me lean towards the Behringer, so long as 2ohm/ch would never be required.

Chris

[Caleb Dueck]

Does anyone know the real world continuous average power output into 4 ohms of the Behringer NX6000? I know the specs Behringer are peak ratings and what they call RMS rating is a burst rating. I've seen some measured tests online stating it can only output 1,200 watts continuous into 4 ohms and 1,800-2,000 watts burst. I'm wondering which would sound the best running 1,600 continuous rated subs between the Behringer NX6000 and the QSC RMX4050HD one sub per channel.

There was a test of the previous model Behringer amp, I don't have it handy, that gave a more honest power rating.  The underlying issue is how long each amp can put out power, especially for subwoofer duty.  Without a true test, if I were limited to only those models I would lightly go with QSC.  However-

Do you have solid wall power?  Is the weight difference a big deal?  If something goes wrong, do you trust QSC support or Music empire support?  Is there no way to afford something like the newer Powersoft T series amp?  A T602 has plenty of power, great DSP, great on subs, small, light, and very power efficient.  What model subs?

[Jack Hawkins]

There was a test of the previous model Behringer amp, I don't have it handy, that gave a more honest power rating.  The underlying issue is how long each amp can put out power, especially for subwoofer duty.  Without a true test, if I were limited to only those models I would lightly go with QSC.  However-

Do you have solid wall power?  Is the weight difference a big deal?  If something goes wrong, do you trust QSC support or Music empire support?  Is there no way to afford something like the newer Powersoft T series amp?  A T602 has plenty of power, great DSP, great on subs, small, light, and very power efficient.  What model subs?

No I have absolutely no chance of being able to afford a Powersoft, the most money I have to spend is about £500 in English money and that would only buy another RMX4050HD used. Even used Crest CA18 here are £900 minimum, a Crown MA5002VZ are around £800-£1,000 used. It's absolutely way out of my price range. The music i'll be playing is drum & bass which has long sustained sub bass as most people know.  If the Behringer is gonna trip the breakers and be a nightmare it's not worth the hassle.

[Luke Geis]

It will only trip a breaker if you are asking it to put out full power for a VERY long time. If it could withstand 10 seconds at full draw ( sine wave signal and giving it all its got ) that is nearly an eternity for most music and especially live music. Most peaks are only 10's of milliseconds long and the crest factor of the media is typically so low with live music that while the peak light may be blinking, you are not drawing full power for long enough for it to be of incident. You would have to have a kick blast as fast as you could possibly do it with a long sustained bass guitar note for many seconds longer than you could probably do that blast or make musical sense to cause the breaker to pop.

The only advantage heavy iron amps have over class D designs is that the heavy iron is able to keep the power rails filled longer or easier. Which is why they tend to be better for sub-applications. That is not 100% true all the time though. Modern SMPS and Class D designs are much more efficient ( less energy required for the given output ) and under normal situations perform as expected comparatively. Under extremes, it is still a toss-up since not all heavy iron amps are good at sub performance. The QSC RMX4050 is pretty darn good for sub use, but is not so good that it leaves the Behringer unit in its shadows.

If it were my money, I would try the DSP version of the NX6000. The efficiency and versatility of it would make it much more valuable to me.

[Jack Hawkins]

It will only trip a breaker if you are asking it to put out full power for a VERY long time. If it could withstand 10 seconds at full draw ( sine wave signal and giving it all its got ) that is nearly an eternity for most music and especially live music. Most peaks are only 10's of milliseconds long and the crest factor of the media is typically so low with live music that while the peak light may be blinking, you are not drawing full power for long enough for it to be of incident. You would have to have a kick blast as fast as you could possibly do it with a long sustained bass guitar note for many seconds longer than you could probably do that blast or make musical sense to cause the breaker to pop.

The only advantage heavy iron amps have over class D designs is that the heavy iron is able to keep the power rails filled longer or easier. Which is why they tend to be better for sub-applications. That is not 100% true all the time though. Modern SMPS and Class D designs are much more efficient ( less energy required for the given output ) and under normal situations perform as expected comparatively. Under extremes, it is still a toss-up since not all heavy iron amps are good at sub performance. The QSC RMX4050 is pretty darn good for sub use, but is not so good that it leaves the Behringer unit in its shadows.

If it were my money, I would try the DSP version of the NX6000. The efficiency and versatility of it would make it much more valuable to me.

I have a Wharfedale Pro Delta series sound system, I bought it because of great reviews including reviews on this site from years ago of the older LX218 a member called Chuck Clark said he had a pair he leant to a club who bashed them hard and wanted to buy them because they thought they were so good. I have four Delta 218B dual 18" subs and two Delta 215 mid/highs, if it was you would you put the Behringer on the mid/highs instead and use the tried and tested RMX4050HD amps for subs one per channel? The only thing I worry about is the Behringer NX6000 being too much power because the Delta 215 cabs are only rated at 1,000 watts continuous average power. Although I was thinking of getting myself a Drawmer SP2120 to put between the dj mixer and the loudspeaker management system i'm buying next month which is a db Mark XCA26 Plus, a few guys i've talked to say they're good and they sold their BSS Minidrives because it had better sound quality.

[Don T. Williams]

I'll bet you can find a supplier with a 30 day or better return policy. Look for one with no restocking charge and give the Behringer a try.  I'm a fan of QSC and especially their support here in the US, but I've sold a lot of Nu and NX Behringer products with very few issues.  I had one customer that kept coming back and eventually bought something like thirteen 6000 or 4-6000 series amps 3 or 4 at a time.  I had a school who's Crown MA5000 series sub amp failed.  I loaned them a 6000 and they said the JBL sub sounded much deeper and punchier.  The could mean the Crown had been failing for a while, but they swore it never sounded as good as the Behringer.  Take that for what its worth, but the Behringer might surprise you.

[Luke Geis]

The subs you have are rated for 1,000 watts continuous, so their program rating is likely 2,000 watts each, which is the ideal wattage to use. I'm pretty certain your dual 18" subs are 4-ohm cabs and the NX6000 is rated for 3000 watts peak at 4 ohm's, which would be about the most I would care to use for the subs. In short, the NX6000 will certainly make the cones move. The 4050HD is rated for 1,300 watts peak at 4 ohm's. While this is plenty to make the subs move air, you would be about 750 - 1000 watts short of being in what I would call the performance zone. I.E. they will get plenty loud, but you will have little or no headroom available. The NX6000 will have an extra 3-4db of headroom over the RMX4050HD. In reality, they will both get the sub just as usably loud, one will just have a little more of a safety margin before the clip light blinks.

If you know you're going to push it till the red lights blink, then the RMX4050HD may be a safer bet for you in the long run. When an amp hard clips, it can produce as much as twice the rated wattage!!!! This assumes full-on red lights, burying the needle, and no shits given though. Again most clips are milliseconds long and if you are diligent, they will be of little worry. If you know you will be pushing the subs hard and you are not proficient, or able to monitor the headroom of the amps, then playing it safe is a better option. I believe the NX amps have a limiter type feature in them ( the DSP models anyway ). The RMX does as well, but it is more generic. So even with the extra horsepower of the NX6000, you can tame it down a bit. BUT, you have to take the time to adjust those settings!

I myself would go with the NX6000 for the whole rig, but I know I am diligent and capable of managing the system. If you are not that confident in managing the power, then the lower wattage option is a safer way to go.

[Chris Grimshaw]

When an amp hard clips, it can produce as much as twice the rated wattage!!!!

When an amp is driven to clipping, the tops of the waveform begin to get squared off while the average power of the input continues to rise.

So if we take pink noise as a test signal (9dB peak-to-average ratio), and push the fader until it's juuuuuust clipping, the average power will be -9dB, or 1/8th power.
ie, a 1000w amp just clipping is delivering 125 real watts when the red lights come on.

If we push the fader by 3dB, the red lights will still be on. Some more bits of the waveform will be chopped off, and the average power has gone up by 3dB, to 250w.

3dB into clipping isn't particularly audible, so we push another 3dB. Quite a lot of the waveform is now being chopped, and the average power is 500w.


There is a myth around that the high-frequency harmonics from clipping amplifiers are especially dangerous. They're not. They represent a tiny tiny fraction of the output signal of a clipping amplifier, at frequencies where impedance is typically at it's highest - the net result is negligible.

Clipping in and of itself isn't necessarily evil. Electric guitarists use clipping all the time, and there's only a few guitarists out there who have to recone their speakers after every gig. You just have to be careful with it.

Chris

[Jack Hawkins]

The subs you have are rated for 1,000 watts continuous, so their program rating is likely 2,000 watts each, which is the ideal wattage to use. I'm pretty certain your dual 18" subs are 4-ohm cabs and the NX6000 is rated for 3000 watts peak at 4 ohm's, which would be about the most I would care to use for the subs. In short, the NX6000 will certainly make the cones move. The 4050HD is rated for 1,300 watts peak at 4 ohm's. While this is plenty to make the subs move air, you would be about 750 - 1000 watts short of being in what I would call the performance zone. I.E. they will get plenty loud, but you will have little or no headroom available. The NX6000 will have an extra 3-4db of headroom over the RMX4050HD. In reality, they will both get the sub just as usably loud, one will just have a little more of a safety margin before the clip light blinks.

If you know you're going to push it till the red lights blink, then the RMX4050HD may be a safer bet for you in the long run. When an amp hard clips, it can produce as much as twice the rated wattage!!!! This assumes full-on red lights, burying the needle, and no shits given though. Again most clips are milliseconds long and if you are diligent, they will be of little worry. If you know you will be pushing the subs hard and you are not proficient, or able to monitor the headroom of the amps, then playing it safe is a better option. I believe the NX amps have a limiter type feature in them ( the DSP models anyway ). The RMX does as well, but it is more generic. So even with the extra horsepower of the NX6000, you can tame it down a bit. BUT, you have to take the time to adjust those settings!

I myself would go with the NX6000 for the whole rig, but I know I am diligent and capable of managing the system. If you are not that confident in managing the power, then the lower wattage option is a safer way to go.

Sorry but you've got that completely wrong my subs are Wharfedale Delta 218B and are rated at 1,600 watts continuous, they are 4 ohms, the RMX4050HD is rated at 1,300 watts continuous into 4 ohms per channel, the QSC data sheet shows that. Plus the amp has been bench tested and found to provide around 1,400 watts continuous average power into 4 ohms with a sinewave as you can see in this test.

https://www.abeltronics.co.uk/amptesting.php?z=QSC_RMX4050HD

The Behringer was bench tested with a sinewave and found to only be able to output around 1,200 watts continuous into 4 ohms with and pushing for more power to get close to meeting it's RMS power specs constantly made the amp's breaker trip and the amp shut down time and time again.

The result was that continuously the Behringer NX6000 can only output 1,200 watts but can output bursts of 1,500 watts for only a few milliseconds. This is why I figured maybe the QSC RMX4050HD which is known to definitely be able to output 1,400 watts continuously with a sinewave would be better for subs. Clipping wise I always set gain structure of my system, dj mixer, loudspeaker management or crossover using a 400hz sinewave and a piezo then keep levels out of the red lights so I have a bit of headroom knowing if it DOES hit the red lights that isn't the clip point and there's a bit of headroom but I still back off until the red lights stop flickering or flashing.

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