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[Luke Geis]

I wouldn't say so. First of all the W8LM is discontinued. Second, it still wasn't so good that I was saying I had to have it. It was just the best sounding and reacting of the ones I had used thus far. From a technology standpoint, it is rather simple and lackluster. Martin just got the sound right ( for me ) with this box. It still exhibits all the typical downsides of common LA systems.

I prefer PA systems that are not really noticed. When you are listening to the band, it just sounds like the band. When you are watching the play or theater performance, it just sounds like the people are saying their dialog and singing their parts, the PA is just in the room. When I notice the PA because of its idiosyncrasies, bad setup, incorrect application, or simply bad mixing, I start to get anxious and bothered. I am a huge fan of letting the engineer do them and accepting that my idea of a good sound is different than others. I feel I can tell the difference between bad engineering and PA systems simply being themselves. I also know that most engineers don't always get to dictate and truly design and select the tools they get stuck with. So with a grain of salt, I realize that not everything is always going to be rainbows, butterflies, and unicorns. I have heard and worked with enough LA and PS systems to have a good idea of what they are capable of, what they should sound like, and how it can be a problem in different applications. So when I hear a system that is of class A caliber and it doesn't impress me, I more or less leave it at that. It is a tool designed to do a task. If I am stuck working with it, I make the best I can of it. There have only been a handful of shows that I have done and only a handful of others I have attended where I feel the sound was absolutely amazing. It can always be better. I like the tools I mentioned because they perform exceptionally well given their applicational use and getting good results is easy. When I don't have to play god with sound is when I am most happy. 

[Doug Fowler]

When I notice the PA because of its idiosyncrasies, bad setup, incorrect application, or simply bad mixing, I start to get anxious and bothered.

What, you're still in the business? 

Paraphrasing Don and Carolyn Davis, if bad sound were lethal we would all be dead.

I once had a BE tell me he always pulled 1.6K out of EAW systems because of the wood used in construction. 

I had another BE ask me to ask EAW if they could put a "fast" knob on system controllers so he could have faster subs.  This is the same guy who was having trouble with an intermittent headset mic, so to test it he ran a sine wave through the sidefill subs, taped the mic in front, then disappeared to catering.  I returned from catering to find two SB1000s smoking.  Still making noise (sort of) but they were toast.

I have not heard a pro PA so bad I blamed the system since JBL hired Paul Bauman to fix Vertec. 

[Tim McCulloch]

And that Paul did.  I had a great lunch conversation with him about what he'd walked into when he was hired.  Some of it wasn't too bad and some was what one would expect from JBL 15 years ago.  I like to think a lot of Paul's thinking carried over into the VTX.

[Tim McCulloch]

Luke, you're conflating *voicing* with *performance*.  If you've ever set up a full Meyer rig from scratch you'd know they sound... uh... honest.  If you don't like what you hear, you need to voice the PA to your liking first.  And Bob McCarthy wrote a book (now 3rd edition) about the process of aligning and optimizing a system to enable that...

[Doug Fowler]

And that Paul did.  I had a great lunch conversation with him about what he'd walked into when he was hired.  Some of it wasn't too bad and some was what one would expect from JBL 15 years ago.  I like to think a lot of Paul's thinking carried over into the VTX.

Vertec suffered like KF760 did: users were not locked out of the system controller.

Question: are there any A level systems currently produced that do not lock out users?

[Tim McCulloch]

Vertec suffered like KF760 did: users were not locked out of the system controller.

Question: are there any A level systems currently produced that do not lock out users?

I think Riley Casey has the last unlocked VerTec rig in the USA, FWIW.

I'm scratching my head and can't think of any rider-accepted A level rig that has open processing.

Well if that's the case I'm sure it sounded as good as possible.

Oh shit I modified rather than quoting. Sorry about that!

Doug, you having those fat-finger moments, too?  I thought that was just me.

That didn't come across the way I meant it to - nothing wrong with Riley's VerTec rig, he's got clients that like it and the service he provides.  One doesn't see *new* A level rigs with open processing anymore.  Sorry Riley, I wasn't trying to disparage your gear or work.

[Luke Geis]

Having set up Meyer systems among others from scratch, I would say that they all have A sound. Honest, pure, true, charactered or whatever that sound may be is not the issue. Again, realize I didn't say that any of them sounded bad, just that none sounded so good I was clamoring to get one. D&B has a sound, Meyer has a sound, Vertec has a sound, this is also combined with each of the systems own ways of dealing with the inherent issues of a LA system. The Q shift as you walk from the front row to the back, the off-axis response of the array, the splash off the back of the array, heck even the way the subs are implemented. With D&B and their cardioid subs, it is a rather weird experience being a Monitor engineer for a band that is all IEM and all you can really hear is the splash off the back of the main hangs and the raw acoustic drum kit banging away.

[Doug Fowler]

I think Riley Casey has the last unlocked VerTec rig in the USA, FWIW.

I'm scratching my head and can't think of any rider-accepted A level rig that has open processing.

Well if that's the case I'm sure it sounded as good as possible.

Oh shit I modified rather than quoting. Sorry about that!

DOH let's try this again. I'm sure Riley's Vertec sounded as good as possible.

[Tim McCulloch]

DOH let's try this again. I'm sure Riley's Vertec sounded as good as possible.

Yeah, that didn't come out the way I intended.  Riley's rig is not lacking, by all accounts.  That's probably why it's still making money for him.

[Doug Fowler]

Yeah, that didn't come out the way I intended.  Riley's rig is not lacking, by all accounts.  That's probably why it's still making money for him.

Fscking quarantine fat finger shit. 😂

Riley and Steve Payne are East Coast Regional Sound Company Kings for good reason.

[ProSoundWeb Community]