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[Bill Meeks]

I have what I still consider limited experience with live mixing. I've been doing it for about 5 years for my church. Currently doing a contemporary and traditional service. Yamaha LS9-32 for traditional (it preceeded me) and a "just-acquired-in December last year" Yamaha TF5 with a pair of Dante Tio stage boxes for the contemporary service. I just started helping out with the contemporary service in December last year. Prior to the introduction of the TF5, they had a very old and very limited analog board with what amounted to zero effects.

This post is soliciting comments for the contemporary worship only. Band is 4 vocalists, 1 acoustic guitar, 2 electric guitars, electric bass, drums (in a full shield enclosure with top) and a Yamaha keyboard. Everything is straight DI except drums and vocals. Those have mics. Band is on Dante-based IEMs (Digital Audio Lab's LiveMix system). The drum shield and the move to straight DI and IEMs all happened at the same time in December last year. Music style is the typical Hillsong, Bethel Music, etc., sound.

My question is about reverb, delay and reverb layering in such a mix. What do you do in your typical mix for this genre?

• Do you use the same reverb everywhere, or do you have more than one with different mix elements getting different treatments?
• Do you put reverb on any acoustic guitars? If so, what type?
• What is your go-to vocal reverb? Do you also put a delay on vocals (I like to, and frequently use either 1/8th note or 1/4 note delay times on vocals only)
• Do you use reverb on your drums, and if so what type? Is it plate or room or something else? I currently use a 1.8 second room reverb on my snare, toms and overheads.
• Do you do anything special with electric guitars in this genre such as stereo delay spread effects or reverb/delay?

I've done quite a bit of YouTube searching and listening prior to posting my question here. The problem with many of the official source YouTube videos is the original live sound is usually totally replaced with a post-production mix that might have been created using elements of the original performance, but is highly processed with plugins, drum samples and the like. So it's not easy to determine what the actual live sound was like in that case. That's why I'm canvassing the pros here for information and ideas.

Thank you in advance for any comments or suggestions you may have to share!

[Steve M Smith]

I often put some delay back into the reverb for vocals.  If the vocal has reverb, it makes sense to me that the repeats should have too.


Steve.

[Dave Pluke]

• Do you use the same reverb everywhere, or do you have more than one with different mix elements getting different treatments?
• Do you put reverb on any acoustic guitars? If so, what type?
• What is your go-to vocal reverb? Do you also put a delay on vocals (I like to, and frequently use either 1/8th note or 1/4 note delay times on vocals only)
• Do you use reverb on your drums, and if so what type? Is it plate or room or something else? I currently use a 1.8 second room reverb on my snare, toms and overheads.
• Do you do anything special with electric guitars in this genre such as stereo delay spread effects or reverb/delay?

You'll likely receive a variety of answers, as there are multiple approaches to this.  My own personal preferences:

You didn't ask, but I don't typically add any effects to electric guitar or keys, leaving that up to the player.

I might add some reverb to an acoustic guitar, depending on the room and the player.

I tend to leave acoustic drums dry, letting the room itself provide the reverb, but there are songs that warrant verb on the snare.  IMHO, reverb on overheads can get too muddy.

Google "Abbey Road Reverb" for ideas on settings.

My "secret sauce" for vocals is typically a long tail plate reverb emulator, HPF'd considerably high.  I also deploy a 28-32ms delay (HPF'd about the same as the mic channel itself) as a doubler for lead vocal.  Beyond that, having a tap tempo delay set to the backbeat can be interesting, particularly on ballads.

Experiment - there are no wrong answers (provided you always MUTE the effects during spoken word).

Dave

[Bill Meeks]

You'll likely receive a variety of answers, as there are multiple approaches to this.  My own personal preferences:

Dave

Yes, I was hoping for a variety of answers to give me other ideas to try and to learn what others do.

In our room with the drum shield, the vast majority of the drum sound now comes from the PA (unless you are in the first few rows), so some amount of reverb helps on the snare and toms. We have a livestream mix as well, and the reverb sends to that mix are a little different.

Thank you for your reply!

[Bill Meeks]

I often put some delay back into the reverb for vocals.  If the vocal has reverb, it makes sense to me that the repeats should have too.

Steve.

I will give this a try. I've seen arguments pro and con in the dozens of YouTube videos I've watched with various pro and semi-pro mixers creating recorded mixes. Not much out there for live stuff, though. Most of what I've found is simply advertisement for some company (Waves is a big one) and the "live sound video" is really just a talking-head presentation from the FOH mixer for a big name band describing how he loves Waves plugins on his $100,000 mixer setup. That is of limited usefulness to us poor church guys where spending $5,000 on a mixer and stage boxes is a major purchase. These FOH guys in the videos have that much money tied up in just Waves plugins ... .

[Tim Weaver]

Here's my patented quick and dirty rules for reverb.

If the space you are in has a natural echo or is reverberant then don't add any more verb. You will make Sound Soup®.

If you use 1992 Whitney Houston levels of Reverb you will make Sound Soup®.

If you recall almost any factory Hall preset you will make Sound Soup®.



Now what I typically do in rooms that can support a little more verb is this:

A Plate verb for snare and toms. About 1.3-1.5 seconds and a little bit brighter than you think it needs to be. Add this in until you hear it, then back it down until you don't. Now leave it alone.

A Room verb set at about .8 to 1.0 seconds. Add all the instruments into this. Yes all. Add vocals into it, but about 10% less than what the instruments are set at. Bring this up until you can *just* hear it, then back it down. This helps to glue the whole mix together in the same "space".

Maybe, MAYBE a Hall set to about 1.6 to 2 seconds just for the lead vocal and just for the torch songs. Again, bring it up until you hear it then back it down.

Delay. Yes I use delay. Totally depends on the genre and the performance. Rockabilly gets about. 160ms mono delay with 15% feedback and High passed around 315 and low passed around 3.15k. Why? I don't know. I like round numbers.....




If you are streaming this mix use way, WAY less verb and delay everywhere. Youtube and FB, etc add a compression to your music which will make those verbs and delays really pop out. Maybe too much.

[Bill Meeks]

Here's my patented quick and dirty rules for reverb.

If the space you are in has a natural echo or is reverberant then don't add any more verb. You will make Sound Soup®.

If you use 1992 Whitney Houston levels of Reverb you will make Sound Soup®.

If you recall almost any factory Hall preset you will make Sound Soup®.

Now what I typically do in rooms that can support a little more verb is this:

A Plate verb for snare and toms. About 1.3-1.5 seconds and a little bit brighter than you think it needs to be. Add this in until you hear it, then back it down until you don't. Now leave it alone.

A Room verb set at about .8 to 1.0 seconds. Add all the instruments into this. Yes all. Add vocals into it, but about 10% less than what the instruments are set at. Bring this up until you can *just* hear it, then back it down. This helps to glue the whole mix together in the same "space".

Maybe, MAYBE a Hall set to about 1.6 to 2 seconds just for the lead vocal and just for the torch songs. Again, bring it up until you hear it then back it down.

Delay. Yes I use delay. Totally depends on the genre and the performance. Rockabilly gets about. 160ms mono delay with 15% feedback and High passed around 315 and low passed around 3.15k. Why? I don't know. I like round numbers.....


If you are streaming this mix use way, WAY less verb and delay everywhere. Youtube and FB, etc add a compression to your music which will make those verbs and delays really pop out. Maybe too much.

Thanks Tim. I hear you on the need for less verb and delay on a livestream mix. I chimed in on a thread about this with you a couple of months back.

Like you say, I am hesitant with Hall Reverbs unless it is a really slow ballad. The TF5 has Yamaha's "Stage Reverb" FX that is sort of nice on a lead vocal in my view. I like the idea of a Room Reverb with all the band in it and some of the vocals. I think that would really help on the livestream (in moderation, of course) to help it sound more "live".

I'm still getting my hands around live mixing a contemporary band. I do okay sitting down at home with my DAW and studio monitors and mixing the individual recorded tracks I bring home. I'm still learning when it comes to mixing on-the-fly during the live performance. Only been doing this contemporary band live for about 4 months now. My other job in the traditional service is much easier since that type of service is much more reserved (a few hymns with just piano and organ and then the spoken word). The contemporary is more of a challenge for me with drums and all the guitars and stuff. Lots of fun, but definitely a bigger challenge.

[Dave Pluke]

Sound Soup®.

Tim, what is the reuse fee and where shall I send it  ?

Add this in until you hear it, then back it down until you don't. Now leave it alone.

Perfect!

Dave

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