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Author Topic: Will do some live streaming concerts on a Pro2C. Need some general advice  (Read 974 times)

Dave Garoutte

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But the most "new" to this will be everything about the sanitary aspect and how to act with contamination in mind. For instance, one thing I've never had to think about before ever is that guest engineer will also be touching the console.. Now suddenly this is a thing to think about..  New rules to how to approach these kind of things which all my working life has been trivial.

You and the BE need to wash your hands.
The virus has a fatty skin that is dissolved (killing the virus) by pretty much any detergent or soap in 20 seconds or so of contact.

https://www.wimp.com/how-soap-kills-viruses/
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Kevin Maxwell

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The first part of this is a cut and paste from something I wrote to someone else. So the tense may seem a little bit off because they weren’t the one mixing.

A couple of mixing tips or maybe more words of caution. One way that sound for video is done is that the Eng. sees the final shots and if there is a close up on an instrument or singer they will push the input for that shot a little bit. I would recommend that you make sure that they don’t do that. It certainly doesn’t make for a good audio only recording. The other thing is I hope they know enough to watch the level they are mixing at, I am not talking about the levels to tape. I have seen a lot of shows on video where it sounds like the mix is not up to par. My standard trick when watching something on TV that doesn’t sound right to me is to tell anyone in the room to watch their ears because I am going to raise the level a lot. And I then notice that the mix now sounds ok when played a lot louder than I would want to listen to it at. I believe that a loud mix falls apart when played at a lower level. But a show that was mixed at a lower level (to me) seems to hold together better when played louder than it was mixed at, not necessarily loud.   

And I would strongly suggest a rehearsal that is primarily to get the sound and video all worked out before time.

I wouldn’t want to do what you are about to do on a mixer I wasn’t intimately familiar with. And if there is no other choice I would want a tech with me that really knows their way around the mixer. Is there any way you can get your hands on the mixer ahead of time to familiarize yourself with it at least a little bit better then you are now? The last time I was thrown into a situation where I wasn’t intimately familiar with the mixer I spent a lot of time working with the off line software to familiarize myself as best as I could. And that is not the same as doing it on the actual mixer. The venue tech for the show I did who couldn’t mix (that is why I was there) also didn’t know the mixer any better than I did. I would even say I knew the mixer better than he did.

For doing sound for this kind of thing I would also suggest you have your monitoring setup in a way that you can on the fly MONO the mix to see if there is anything setup in a way that causes a phase cancelation when listening in mono.

As I think has already been said it is a good idea to have a nice set of speakers (NOT BIG) to mix on and also the ability to quickly switch to a not so great speakers to listen to see if the mix will work for someone that will be listening to this on a not so great video/sound device. I would configure your setup with these different speakers being sent thru matrix outs and then a separate matrix out for broadcast. Then you can mute the different speaker feeds without messing up your broadcast send. Sometimes I will use headphones to solo things other times I will have a set of speakers that change from program to solo. If using headphones I usually just put one side to one ear and only for a very short period of time.


I always liked to have a nice rack mount meter so I could always see my broadcast mix levels.

I would also see if you can put the output from a computer with the stream program back into the console so you can solo it to see how it is working. Just be sure to setup those inputs so they can only go to a solo out and not back to your program out.

I had a client that when I listened to their streaming it was never loud enough and it wasn’t a problem with the mixer not putting out a hot enough signal it was the streaming computer software that wasn’t setup to output a hot enough signal. After they fixed that setting it was fine.

If it doesn’t distract you from what you are primarily there to do and you have the capability it might be a good idea to multitrack the show for playing with it later if nothing else.

If this is a multi-camera shoot ask if they can give you a video feed that shows you the different cameras and also the program output. You will need a big enough video monitor if it is a split screen (multi view) or you at least want one monitor with the program. And since you will be in a room where you are basically blind it would be really nice if you also had another monitor with a lockdown camera on a wide enough shot to see the whole band.   

I hope this is of some help.
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brian maddox

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....
 My standard trick when watching something on TV that doesn’t sound right to me is to tell anyone in the room to watch their ears because I am going to raise the level a lot. And I then notice that the mix now sounds ok when played a lot louder than I would want to listen to it at. I believe that a loud mix falls apart when played at a lower level. But a show that was mixed at a lower level (to me) seems to hold together better when played louder than it was mixed at, not necessarily loud.   

...

^^THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Russell Ault

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My standard trick when watching something on TV that doesn’t sound right to me is to tell anyone in the room to watch their ears because I am going to raise the level a lot. And I then notice that the mix now sounds ok when played a lot louder than I would want to listen to it at. I believe that a loud mix falls apart when played at a lower level. But a show that was mixed at a lower level (to me) seems to hold together better when played louder than it was mixed at, not necessarily loud.   

Do you think this is equal-loudness contour-related, or is there more going on?

-Russ
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Joe Pieternella

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If I may..

I believe it's because you have more signal to noise ratio in a (live) mixing environment than at home.
It's easy to get tens of dB over ambient noise when you are mixing so it's ok to have your quieter elements be 10 to 15 dB below lead instrument or vox levels, maybe even 20dB less.

You don't have that dynamic space at home
Joe
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Miguel Dahl

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May I ask a stupid question.. I don't feel like digging through the manual tonight. I set up the console today, first time in lots of years, and it came sound out of almost the correct speakers on the first try, ha.

Master to matrix: I've LNK'ed the matrices. when sending from the master busses, I need to press Master L and pan that matrix send to left (matrix 1), and vice versa? I'm now Yammie-used to those operating as stereo, so pan should be center on the yammies.. There's nothing I've overlooked here?

When I solo a linked matrix (matrix 1+2), do I need to press BOTH solos at the same time? This question is related to the question above.

And yes, I'll be mixing pretty low, equal loudness contour in mind.. And I have to work/focus harder with the ears, which is a while ago :)

About the sanitation. We've got our own stalls in the restrooms, own chairs with a small table where we can put our personal stuff if needed in the "house", and there's hand sanitizer everywhere in the venue, and I brought a 100-pack of gloves. And maximum cap at the venue is 12 people at any time, so hooray, all the supports are now just down to a solo act because of this.



« Last Edit: April 08, 2020, 04:37:11 pm by Miguel Dahl »
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Andrew Hollis

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Do you think this is equal-loudness contour-related, or is there more going on?

What he describes is textbook Fletcher Munson, I'd say that's it.

Fwiw, The Late Show music mix (Harvey Goldberg on a glorious 96 fader SSL, the largest C200 ever made) is done very quietly. High 70's at the most, but probably less.

The whole console did not fit in the photo, ha:

Tim Weaver

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Use the talk buttons directly to the monitor bus(s)es to talk to the band. You'll probably get enough leakage from the vocal mics to hear the band.

Press to talk, press again to release or use a mic with a switch. Really fast & simple on Midas Pro.

This.

I have a dedicated TB to the band's ears, but I can hear everything they say just fine over the regular broadcast mix. Even those guys that don't have mics get picked up by those that do.


Good luck. Use more compression than you think you'll need. "I" devices need lot's o'signal present to have a good full mix. A multiband comp or a hard limiter on the output would be a good thing here.
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Miguel Dahl

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This.

I have a dedicated TB to the band's ears, but I can hear everything they say just fine over the regular broadcast mix. Even those guys that don't have mics get picked up by those that do.


Good luck. Use more compression than you think you'll need. "I" devices need lot's o'signal present to have a good full mix. A multiband comp or a hard limiter on the output would be a good thing here.

I've already got a 2:1 comp on the master with a soft knee, which just rounds off the stuff for a while before meeting the brick which is on the matrix.

But I'm still curious about the matrix questions above :)

Unless I did anything wrong, I'm flabbergasted by the low FX count I can do on this board.

I used the "new" reverb (3 rack slots), and after that there were only 3 slots left? I couldn't even populate the rack fully, even though I set the desk to most FX less GEQ. Pentium II? Or operator error?
« Last Edit: April 08, 2020, 07:01:48 pm by Miguel Dahl »
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Helge A Bentsen

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You'll need to pan the matrix sends on the channels you're sending to the matrixes.
Also select the L matrix master (if you want stereo) and hit link, that way you'll get one solo press for L/R.
And make sure the latency compensation is set to "main to matrix post processing". IIRC that's the name.

You're correct about the FX as well. Pro2c doesn't support a lot of rack fx. I use a Klark DN9630 for more fx if needed, but the VSS3 upgrade is so good that I use that as main reverb and only connect something if really needed.

Still one of my favorite consoles to mix music on, I went from hating the UI to really loving it. IT's fast and easy and I can make it sound like I want.
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Re: Will do some live streaming concerts on a Pro2C. Need some general advice
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2020, 05:26:29 am »


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