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Author Topic: Anyone else have issues with 3rd gen Audio Technica 3000 series?  (Read 578 times)

Justin Quinn

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Does anyone else have issues with these systems fuzzing and cutting out?  I've used these in different theaters (I don't own any) and experience a lot more issues with them than I do with other systems.  Recently I've been using a few Shure systems and WWB to scan and coordinate the RF for everything, the ATs included, and still have issues with them where the Shure systems (UHF-R and QLXD) work perfectly even when fed off the same antennas and distros.

We're usually using paddles at FOH position and AT's distribution, the RF levels on the recievers check out just fine, transmitters on low RF output.  Adjusting the squelch just makes them cut out more, not much luck there.

I've used plenty a wireless system without issue so I think I'm doing everything right but it still baffles me sometimes, so some insight would ease my mind a bit.
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: Anyone else have issues with 3rd gen Audio Technica 3000 series?
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2020, 10:54:34 am »

I have quite a few 2nd and 3rd generation AT 3000 series wireless and never have had any issues using up to 24 at one time. Mine are racked four to a rack each with it's own antenna distro.

What frequencies groups are they in?
Is the antenna distro system compatible with the AT frequencies?
What is the transmitter to receive antenna distance?
Have you tried the transmitters on the high 30mw setting?
Do the AT receivers show any RF activity with the AT transmitters turned off?
How many AT wireless systems do you have?

The 3rd gen 3000 series has a half way decent frequency scan option.
Maybe set up and turn on the rest of your wireless and then do a scan on each of the AT receivers
to pick the operating frequency per receiver.

Systems in the same frequency band need to be operating in the same channel group of frequencies. 
« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 11:02:27 am by Mike Caldwell »
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Justin Quinn

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Re: Anyone else have issues with 3rd gen Audio Technica 3000 series?
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2020, 03:19:25 pm »

I have quite a few 2nd and 3rd generation AT 3000 series wireless and never have had any issues using up to 24 at one time. Mine are racked four to a rack each with it's own antenna distro.

What frequencies groups are they in?
Is the antenna distro system compatible with the AT frequencies?
What is the transmitter to receive antenna distance?
Have you tried the transmitters on the high 30mw setting?
Do the AT receivers show any RF activity with the AT transmitters turned off?
How many AT wireless systems do you have?

The 3rd gen 3000 series has a half way decent frequency scan option.
Maybe set up and turn on the rest of your wireless and then do a scan on each of the AT receivers
to pick the operating frequency per receiver.

Systems in the same frequency band need to be operating in the same channel group of frequencies.
In both theaters I commonly use these in we are using ATW-A49 antennas and ATW-DA49 distribution.  Where I have the most issues we are using 16 C band channels and 8 D band channels.  I have tried the group and scanning functionality to no avail.  With either WWB or the receiver's own scanning we're not able to get more than 12 C band channels online due to TV channels.  We're looking at around 100ft transmitter to antenna distance and (I would have to guess) 50 feet of coax from the antenna to distro in this particular instance, but I also have used these systems with 50 feet of transmitter to antenna distance and 3 feet of coax with the same issues.  I have tried the transmitters on 30mw with the issues increasing.  After proper scanning and coordination, the receivers do not show RF activity.
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: Anyone else have issues with 3rd gen Audio Technica 3000 series?
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2020, 04:23:45 pm »

Depending on your location the D band units may be already getting hit from T Mobile firing up.

And again depending on your location the C band systems while not soon to be illegal it sounds like they are in the bandwidth that the local TV stations all moved into.

Try turning off of the other wireless systems, do a rescan on the AT C band units, use the same group for all of them, as each receiver picks it's frequency tune it's transmitter to that frequency and leave it turned on, scan the next receiver and repeat.

Do not stack all the transmitters up in a pile or next to the antennas.

I assume your using one pair of antennas, how are you splitting the RF to feed all of the DA49 distros?

Justin Quinn

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Re: Anyone else have issues with 3rd gen Audio Technica 3000 series?
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2020, 06:08:42 pm »

Depending on your location the D band units may be already getting hit from T Mobile firing up.

And again depending on your location the C band systems while not soon to be illegal it sounds like they are in the bandwidth that the local TV stations all moved into.

Try turning off of the other wireless systems, do a rescan on the AT C band units, use the same group for all of them, as each receiver picks it's frequency tune it's transmitter to that frequency and leave it turned on, scan the next receiver and repeat.

Do not stack all the transmitters up in a pile or next to the antennas.

I assume your using one pair of antennas, how are you splitting the RF to feed all of the DA49 distros?
I'm going to focus on the high school I've been referring mostly to.  This is an install where all the distros and wireless systems are in a rack where the back is locked and no one seems to know where the key is.  There are 8 distros for the 24 receivers, how it's all wired up is unknown to me.  If I want to investigate I'll have to remove the units from the front.  The D band units actually work quite well, we can still get all 8 channels online no issues, the issues are with the C bands.  I've informed the school that the D bands will soon be unusable but they shook the whole thing off (what can ya do?  :( )

I'll try to rescan next time I'm there, but I did exactly what you said and still had issues.
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: Anyone else have issues with 3rd gen Audio Technica 3000 series?
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2020, 12:44:08 pm »

the back is locked and no one seems to know where the key is. 

That's the very reason I carry keys in my tool box that will open just about all the standard equipment rack doors!

Tim McCulloch

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Re: Anyone else have issues with 3rd gen Audio Technica 3000 series?
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2020, 11:51:49 am »

That's the very reason I carry keys in my tool box that will open just about all the standard equipment rack doors!

Several decades ago when I worked as a Motorola mobile radio installer I had a key ring with about a dozen keys and they'd open damn near everything besides the Moto/GE/RCA/Johnson/Ericsson radio cabinets and equipment retaining locks.

Note that most of these same keys are still in use for a wide variety uses - elevator controls, building/parking access control boxes, all kinds of "secure" stuff.  A screwdriver or claw hammer will open damn near everything if you need to resort to force and you can replace the cabinet lock "bolt" later.
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

scottstephens

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Re: Anyone else have issues with 3rd gen Audio Technica 3000 series?
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2020, 12:56:17 pm »

Justin,

I had problems with Early AT 3000 series; generations 1 and 2. They would drop out seemingly without reason. Infact, I almost avoided buying anymore because of that.  But a local rep convinced me to try gen 3 by loaning me some for a show. They worked very well.  The rep told me that AT units do not like metal cabinets. I don't know. I use several 3rd gens in the C band and have had no trouble.  I also use several of the 4th gen and they too have been very reliable. No dropouts and signal through several concrete walls even. 

I think Mike is correct when he says that a tv signal or something else is squashing the signal.  One time, about 8 years ago,  a friend and I were doing a local school show using his 12 Shure SLX and my 8 AT 3000's and all of a sudden EVERY mic went out. This was about 10 mins. before a show. It turned out that several barges were going up or down the river and they crushed every wireless. When they left the area all of them came back up.  Is there an industrial complex near  your location?

Scott
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: Anyone else have issues with 3rd gen Audio Technica 3000 series?
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2020, 02:58:26 pm »

Justin,

  The rep told me that AT units do not like metal cabinets. I don't know. I use several 3rd gens in the C band and have had no trouble.  I also use several of the 4th gen and they too have been very reliable. No dropouts and signal through several concrete walls even. 

Scott

It sounds like his antennas are remote mounted outside of the rack. The big question is how the distro system is wired up inside the rack, that could be the problem.
Break into the rack and let us know what you find.

I always felt the AT3000 series fell into the sweet spot of performance, features and price. The new 3000 series are good with a lot of added features but at a higher price and a body pack that uses a new connector that will not mate with the HIROSE mic connectors that AT used forever.

Scott Holtzman

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Re: Anyone else have issues with 3rd gen Audio Technica 3000 series?
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2020, 05:01:27 pm »

Several decades ago when I worked as a Motorola mobile radio installer I had a key ring with about a dozen keys and they'd open damn near everything besides the Moto/GE/RCA/Johnson/Ericsson radio cabinets and equipment retaining locks.

Note that most of these same keys are still in use for a wide variety uses - elevator controls, building/parking access control boxes, all kinds of "secure" stuff.  A screwdriver or claw hammer will open damn near everything if you need to resort to force and you can replace the cabinet lock "bolt" later.


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Justin Quinn

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Re: Anyone else have issues with 3rd gen Audio Technica 3000 series?
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2020, 07:25:47 pm »

Justin,

I had problems with Early AT 3000 series; generations 1 and 2. They would drop out seemingly without reason. Infact, I almost avoided buying anymore because of that.  But a local rep convinced me to try gen 3 by loaning me some for a show. They worked very well.  The rep told me that AT units do not like metal cabinets. I don't know. I use several 3rd gens in the C band and have had no trouble.  I also use several of the 4th gen and they too have been very reliable. No dropouts and signal through several concrete walls even. 

I think Mike is correct when he says that a tv signal or something else is squashing the signal.  One time, about 8 years ago,  a friend and I were doing a local school show using his 12 Shure SLX and my 8 AT 3000's and all of a sudden EVERY mic went out. This was about 10 mins. before a show. It turned out that several barges were going up or down the river and they crushed every wireless. When they left the area all of them came back up.  Is there an industrial complex near  your location?

Scott
Nope, rather rural area.  Again, everything is coordinated with WWB using scan data from Shure units albeit, not off the AT distros.  The antennas are remote mounted in the back of the auditorium, approx 100' from stage
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: Anyone else have issues with 3rd gen Audio Technica 3000 series?
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2020, 07:45:46 pm »

Nope, rather rural area.  Again, everything is coordinated with WWB using scan data from Shure units albeit, not off the AT distros.  The antennas are remote mounted in the back of the auditorium, approx 100' from stage

I think you need to get into the rack one way or another and see how the AT receivers are really being fed from the distro.

Tim McCulloch

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Re: Anyone else have issues with 3rd gen Audio Technica 3000 series?
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2020, 01:08:25 am »

Nope, rather rural area.  Again, everything is coordinated with WWB using scan data from Shure units albeit, not off the AT distros.  The antennas are remote mounted in the back of the auditorium, approx 100' from stage

The results are clearly different.  I'm highly suspicious of the house installation.  Hit by lightning?  "Helping" hands inside the rack?  Something's up.
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

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Re: Anyone else have issues with 3rd gen Audio Technica 3000 series?
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2020, 01:08:25 am »


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