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[Shawn A Fieseler]

We need to know what kind of subs they are.  If possible you want to stay within the vendors ecosystem.  That will help drive the decision for the tops too.

I apologize, i didn't think that would matter. Man, you guys really nail stuff down to the nats ass around here! haha. Ok ok, i'll have my guy tear into these subs and get some finite information, and come back with a new thread.

[Mark Wilkinson]

I'm a QSC fan. No problems many years with 10 different models, pl3, plx, rmx, pld, cxd-q, and cx.
Super responsive support when asking questions about the cxd-q qsys amps...
Plain good value ime...

[Jeff Lelko]

The subs are already bought, but i need to get an amp. The tops are a different matter.

That’s assuming you keep the subs.  It may end up that after digging into this and pricing out your options you’ll find out it’s best to buy an entire matched system and sell the leftover bits and pieces you have.  Depending on the needs of your subs an appropriate amp may not be so cheap, especially when you factor in the new versus used argument.  Good luck!

[Tim McCulloch]

I apologize, i didn't think that would matter. Man, you guys really nail stuff down to the nats ass around here! haha. Ok ok, i'll have my guy tear into these subs and get some finite information, and come back with a new thread.

Are the subs proprietary (as in "not sold as a finished commercial product")?  If so, the brand of amp isn't particularly important.  But, for example, if you had JBL passive subs or tops using Crown amps with the proper JBL presets would be de rigueur.  Likewise d&b or l'Acoustics...

The amps to avoid for sub duty:  Crown CE 1000, 2000, 3000 (the CE4000 is an entirely different beast), Peavey/Crest ProLite (ask Scott Holtzman about ProLites on sub duty), Crown *original* XTi series (the XTi *002 will work fine on sub duty).  Behringer "nukes".

[Jamin Lynch]

nope
nope
nope

1999 called and wants it's cobranet back.

I've been using Crown since the D150, DC300, PSA2 days. Always had good luck. Unlikely I will ever change.

ITech HD series are my favorites. But not always affordable for some folks.

[Paul G. OBrien]

I apologize, i didn't think that would matter. Man, you guys really nail stuff down to the nats ass around here! haha.

Yes... the details matter and many of the guys here have been around this block many times so they know what it takes. What you are discovering I hope is that a high performing PA system is not just a collection of random bits, it is a system after all which implies each part is optimized to best compliment the others. Too that end it is going to be really hard to beat the overall performance of a single vendor solution these days.. be that self powered boxes or passive with the matching rack amp/processor combo. Speaker driver technology hasn't changed a hugh amount but amplification and processing has and that really pays dividends at the war volume end of the spectrum where a matched system just sounds better and is near impossible to kill.

[Scott Carneval]

X2.

Agreed. I was a huge fan of Crown Macrotech's back when I got started. If I was building a system on a budget today I would probably still look at used Macrotechs. The I-Tech HD's aren't junk by any means, but it's 2020 there's just so much better stuff available these days. Just like everything else under the Harman umbrella...they just don't make em like they used to.

[Tim McCulloch]

Yes... the details matter and many of the guys here have been around this block many times so they know what it takes. What you are discovering I hope is that a high performing PA system is not just a collection of random bits, it is a system after all which implies each part is optimized to best compliment the others. Too that end it is going to be really hard to beat the overall performance of a single vendor solution these days.. be that self powered boxes or passive with the matching rack amp/processor combo. Speaker driver technology hasn't changed a hugh amount but amplification and processing has and that really pays dividends at the war volume end of the spectrum where a matched system just sounds better and is near impossible to kill.

^^^ THIS (mostly).

When I started as a "guy with a van full of sound equipment", we had to design and engineer our systems from highs to lows (subwoofers were just becoming a thing).  Pick the HF driver, the horn, decide how it was going to be mounted; rinse and repeat for the mids and lows - mid horn or surface mounted cone driver? Which LF speaker...  Then how to power it all and what crossover (DSP wasn't a thing yet) to use...

A couple of years later EAW introduced the KF series and "real PA" that only required a checkbook or credit card became a reality... and led to one of my now-revived Audio Truisms "Any fool with money or credit can own a big PA, and some do."

These days all the side-rule, HP calculator, propeller beanie stuff has been done for us.  The component choices are engineered to fit price brackets and assembled to fit a particular place in a brand's family.  The advent of DSP, then sophisticated DSP and then stuffing it into the amplifier made for even less decisioneering... but it established that you don't want to break up a family of loudspeakers and processed amplifiers, and because some folks need help with that bit of work, the amplifiers became part of the loudspeaker assembly.

Frankly, Shawn, you need to set your budget (include realistic amounts you can make selling off non-conforming inventory) and start comparing products in the same price bracket.  You'll find mostly "voicing" differences and often not much difference in actual performance and only variations of feature sets.  When you move up or down the food/money chain you will find performance differences (things that can be measured as well as the gut feeling of "that sounds GOOD/BAD!".  Good gear - the stuff near the top of the pro-sumer bracket - is really pretty decent stuff and make it easier to do sound well; the cheaper stuff, while appearing similar in many specifications, is audibly of lesser quality and is more difficult to work with.  When I occasionally help some musician friends with their gear I *really* appreciate the inventory at work!

Shawn, there are a couple of things you'll read often on these forums:  Buy once, cry once; and the wrong piece of gear 'at the right price' is still the wrong piece of gear.  I add to those:  lateral moves are 100% expense; unproductive inventory is infinitely expensive; and moving up only 1 increment in a brand's model lineup is a waste of money (in JBL that would be starting with JRX, deciding you need MRX, then PRX, then SRX) - leapfrog at least 1 model).  A lateral move would be starting with the new Yamaha DZR and then deciding you want JBL SRX... 

Nobody has asked how you're using this gear, so I will.  Event/wedding DJ?  Live band reinforcement in bars, clubs or other 200ish capacity rooms?  Corporate or special event live audio?  Some combination of the above or other uses not mentioned?

[Steve-White]

I've been using Crown since the D150, DC300, PSA2 days. Always had good luck. Unlikely I will ever change.

ITech HD series are my favorites. But not always affordable for some folks.

Same here on the old Crown’s.  The  XTi’s & Macro-Tech’s work well, even on generator.  I run DSC’s, so no idea what the onboard XTi processing may or may not due.  That could be a problem for some.

My philosophy with a lot of gear with regard to the “haters”.  Most times they have little or no actual hands-on experience with the products and/or systems they are bashing.  And - “Hand the keys for a Lamborghini to an idiot and nothing good will happen”.

[Mike Monte]

Same here on the old Crown’s.  The  XTi’s & Macro-Tech’s work well, even on generator. 

Well......after doing more-than-my-share of generator gigs I did have one incident where an XTI4000 went into fault while using a genny (I do not remember the make of gen...it was a tow-behind).
It would start its cycle and go immediately into fault....
however
the rest of the amps in the rack: IT6000, K2, XS4300 had no problems.

 

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