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Author Topic: New Processors For Old Speaker Rig  (Read 3499 times)

Geri O'Neil

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New Processors For Old Speaker Rig
« on: February 24, 2020, 11:11:40 am »

I'm always hesitant to come in here with questions like this because of, shall we say, less-than-helpful comments and remarks. I would kindly request that only those participants with some experience in the subject comment (which won't be very many, I'm pretty sure). Here goes...

The former and now part-time boss still owns and uses an old EAW KF760 rig for a lot of events. It's 20 years old, but still sounds pretty decent for outdoor things like rodeos, races, etc. It still makes money, which is why he's using it.

Lately, the EAW UX8800 processors have begun to get shaky and unreliable. Things like dropping output legs, routing assignments, and other oddities. I've done the service bulletin thing of tightening screws and cleaning internal connections and the like and it still happens. It happened lately and the unit wouldn't allow me to go in and assign the proper output leg. I haven't been able to dig in further, we have several of the units and this one is awaiting my further attention on the bench. And EAW will no longer service these processors. No big surprise there.

If, nay, since he's gonna keep running this rig, I think those processors need to go away. I've been looking at the Lake processor line. The LM24 looks promising, but the question is, would anyone know if there are specific settings available for the 760/761 processing requirements? That rig finally sounded pretty decent when the FIR filters were used for the UX8800 processor settings. I doubt it's a simple matter if copying settings, which can't be down anyway because of the gray box nature of the processor settings. And I was never a roll-yer-own processor settings kinda guy, anyway.

Trust me, I've been through the drill of pointing out the cons of investing in new processors for a 20-year-old speaker rig, but he wants to keep the rig running. And at least the Lakes have some resale value if he decided to decommission the 760 rig.

Thanx for any insight.
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boburtz

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Re: New Processors For Old Speaker Rig
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2020, 11:42:34 am »

I'm always hesitant to come in here with questions like this because of, shall we say, less-than-helpful comments and remarks. I would kindly request that only those participants with some experience in the subject comment (which won't be very many, I'm pretty sure). Here goes...

The former and now part-time boss still owns and uses an old EAW KF760 rig for a lot of events. It's 20 years old, but still sounds pretty decent for outdoor things like rodeos, races, etc. It still makes money, which is why he's using it.

Lately, the EAW UX8800 processors have begun to get shaky and unreliable. Things like dropping output legs, routing assignments, and other oddities. I've done the service bulletin thing of tightening screws and cleaning internal connections and the like and it still happens. It happened lately and the unit wouldn't allow me to go in and assign the proper output leg. I haven't been able to dig in further, we have several of the units and this one is awaiting my further attention on the bench. And EAW will no longer service these processors. No big surprise there.

If, nay, since he's gonna keep running this rig, I think those processors need to go away. I've been looking at the Lake processor line. The LM24 looks promising, but the question is, would anyone know if there are specific settings available for the 760/761 processing requirements? That rig finally sounded pretty decent when the FIR filters were used for the UX8800 processor settings. I doubt it's a simple matter if copying settings, which can't be down anyway because of the gray box nature of the processor settings. And I was never a roll-yer-own processor settings kinda guy, anyway.

Trust me, I've been through the drill of pointing out the cons of investing in new processors for a 20-year-old speaker rig, but he wants to keep the rig running. And at least the Lakes have some resale value if he decided to decommission the 760 rig.

Thanx for any insight.
We've had the exact same issues with our UX processors. Those things are temperamental and sometimes impossible. We have been using PLM amplifiers on our kf730 rig and the one variable that is missing compared to the UX is a delta high-pass. You get whatever the stock processor setting is, which is not visible. Probably not an issue with the 760, but the 730 can sometimes benefit from raising that frequency. To date we have been doing it with a steep LF shelf. It works, but is not quite as elegant. Other than that, if you are familiar with lake it is a superior platform to the UX from a UI perspective, and I think it sounds better, too.
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Mark Wilkinson

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Steve Ferreira

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Re: New Processors For Old Speaker Rig
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2020, 12:50:08 pm »

I have no hands on experience with the gear you are talking about, but there is a UX8800 for sale in the marketplace right now.

https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,173160.0.html
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: New Processors For Old Speaker Rig
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2020, 01:22:15 pm »

Since DSPs do not always "agree" on the "simple numbers", it is not always possible to simply enter in numbers and get the same results.

Here is what I would do.

Since you have the old processors, take some transfer measurements of the passbands of interest.

Then use a new processor (your choice) and "hopefully" simply get the traces to lay on top of each other.

Here may be the problem.  You need to look at both amplitude AND phase traces, and pay attention to the delay settings etc.

There may be some "magic sauce" used in the EAW that makes it hard to get the traces to lay on top, I don't know.

You may have to use some different xover alignments as well.

But I would MEASURE, DO NOT trust the "simple numbers" to be right
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Ivan Beaver
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: New Processors For Old Speaker Rig
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2020, 01:24:45 pm »

Here you go

http://eaw.com/docs/2_Legacy_Products/Loudspeakers/KF/KF760/KF760_KF761_PROCS_rev2.pdf
Those numbers do not say what processor they are used in.

Different DSPs can have VERY different numbers to have the same result.

I have seen xover filters being close to an octave off and the bandwidth/Q of filters be off by a factor of 2:1.

Yes, the "basic numbers", will give you "something", but often it could be very different than being correct.
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Ivan Beaver
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PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Tim McCulloch

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Re: New Processors For Old Speaker Rig
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2020, 01:31:15 pm »

Here you go

http://eaw.com/docs/2_Legacy_Products/Loudspeakers/KF/KF760/KF760_KF761_PROCS_rev2.pdf

Those numbers would be for Ashly processors - Ashly was/is the OEM for EAW processors...  Note the date on the PDF document - it was pre-UX processors as well...
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Eric Vogel

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Re: New Processors For Old Speaker Rig
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2020, 01:34:54 pm »

I'm always hesitant to come in here with questions like this because of, shall we say, less-than-helpful comments and remarks. I would kindly request that only those participants with some experience in the subject comment (which won't be very many, I'm pretty sure). Here goes...

The former and now part-time boss still owns and uses an old EAW KF760 rig for a lot of events. It's 20 years old, but still sounds pretty decent for outdoor things like rodeos, races, etc. It still makes money, which is why he's using it.

Lately, the EAW UX8800 processors have begun to get shaky and unreliable. Things like dropping output legs, routing assignments, and other oddities. I've done the service bulletin thing of tightening screws and cleaning internal connections and the like and it still happens. It happened lately and the unit wouldn't allow me to go in and assign the proper output leg. I haven't been able to dig in further, we have several of the units and this one is awaiting my further attention on the bench. And EAW will no longer service these processors. No big surprise there.

If, nay, since he's gonna keep running this rig, I think those processors need to go away. I've been looking at the Lake processor line. The LM24 looks promising, but the question is, would anyone know if there are specific settings available for the 760/761 processing requirements? That rig finally sounded pretty decent when the FIR filters were used for the UX8800 processor settings. I doubt it's a simple matter if copying settings, which can't be down anyway because of the gray box nature of the processor settings. And I was never a roll-yer-own processor settings kinda guy, anyway.

Trust me, I've been through the drill of pointing out the cons of investing in new processors for a 20-year-old speaker rig, but he wants to keep the rig running. And at least the Lakes have some resale value if he decided to decommission the 760 rig.

Thanx for any insight.

If you decide on Lake LM, I will gladly send you our 'old' DLP files for a 760/761/KF940/SB1000 rig we had out with Maiden many years ago.
It would get you a starting point.
If interested, we also have 12x 761's for sale + many parts (recone kits/drivers/diaphragms) for 76x series.  Let me know.
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Mark Wilkinson

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Re: New Processors For Old Speaker Rig
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2020, 01:42:46 pm »

Those numbers do not say what processor they are used in.

Different DSPs can have VERY different numbers to have the same result.

I have seen xover filters being close to an octave off and the bandwidth/Q of filters be off by a factor of 2:1.

Yes, the "basic numbers", will give you "something", but often it could be very different than being correct.

Very true, but good odds considering the era, are that the processor was EAW's MX8750.

I ran into this EQ conversion task trying to use the SC-48 / ASC-48 with similar EAW legacy settings for kf695z  http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?topic=164535.0
In that thread, Rich Frembes formerly with EAW, kindly pointed out, if EQ's were set using BW (instead of Q), that settings would match nicely to the MX8750.
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Geri O'Neil

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Re: New Processors For Old Speaker Rig
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2020, 02:38:15 pm »

Here you go

http://eaw.com/docs/2_Legacy_Products/Loudspeakers/KF/KF760/KF760_KF761_PROCS_rev2.pdf

Thanx for the response, but as Tim said, those settings were for the Ashly-based MX8750 processor where all the settings could be entered manually, as opposed to the locked greybox files used in the UX8800s. I should have clarified the question more specifically in that direction.

I liked what the UX8800s did for the sound of the 760s, but I hated using the cotton-picking' things!
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: New Processors For Old Speaker Rig
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2020, 02:38:15 pm »


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