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Author Topic: help to cluster 4 horn subs  (Read 772 times)

Bob Stone

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Re: help to cluster 4 horn subs
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2020, 03:41:03 pm »

Bob, what makes you think horns defy the laws of physics?  The acoustic outputs will still couple.

Tight packing horns gives you a larger horn "mouth" area, which lowers the cut off and increases directivity... Maybe Ivan can expound...

Tim - I know the first point and never said anything about defying the laws of physical (no need for the snark remark)...I said "rather than just the sound waves (coupling)...."

It's the second point about the mouth area that I was asking about, implying that 1/4 wavelength spacing might still be sub-optimal for horns and they should be tight packed to get the most out of them.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: help to cluster 4 horn subs
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2020, 04:27:09 pm »

Thanks for the advice comments
i do not have the LA400's ( i wish)

i have 4 b52 LX18's that looks like the CV L36 , so is the same principle i guess
i acquired them for $500  all four
also an  FP10000Q  preowned SANWAY clone that i bought for $400

A guy in town swapped the original drivers with  B&C 18TBX100
does the TBX100 will fit the LX18's ?


You need to replace that amp with something legitimate and sage.  When that thing catches fire and burns a building down it's on you.  It's also just not right to use stolen intellectual property.



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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
www.ghostav.rocks

Rolando Saenz

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Re: help to cluster 4 horn subs
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2020, 08:20:27 pm »


You need to replace that amp with something legitimate and sage.  When that thing catches fire and burns a building down it's on you.  It's also just not right to use stolen intellectual property.

the definition of legitimate is:
conforming to the law or to rules.

there is nothing unlawful in buying an electronic device that is not banned or illegal  to buy in the USA

there is no evidence of spontaneous combustion on that particular model
in fact, Polymarch (Mexico largest live sound company ) swapped all of their crown amps for Sanways

saying that somebody is using stolen intellectual property because you do not like a particular brand is childish
there is no legal proof of what you are stating

i guess you have racks full of  Dynacord and  Powersoft amps
To each its own.

 
« Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 08:23:36 pm by Rolando Saenz »
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Riley Casey

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Re: help to cluster 4 horn subs
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2020, 08:49:15 pm »

The goal with horn loaded subs is to stack enough of them to create a virtual horn mouth area large enough to support the lowest frequency wavelength of interest and ideally matching the flare rate of the horn. The floor adds to that virtual area.  The floor doesn't take space in the truck, doesn't require stagehands to move and doesn't require amp power.  Keep them on the floor until you have so many subs that a single line on the floor exceeds that low freq wavelength and then start stacking them.

Guys,
what is the best way to cluster 4 horn subs
See pic
A,B,C or D

also, it is possible to do a cardioid arrangement with 4 cabs ?
i saw one time a guy who put 2 cabs , one in top of the other the top one facing to the back
and he inverted the polarity on the top one
i didnt had the chance to hear it


Ivan Beaver

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Re: help to cluster 4 horn subs
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2020, 08:44:09 am »

With horns though, isn't there a coupling of the horns too rather than just the sound waves when they're placed close together?
There are two aspects, that are completely different being talked about here.

First is the coupling effect of putting horns together.  Since most bass horns are to small, they do not properly load the drivers when used in singles.  This results in a ripple effect on the lower end of the response, due to the incorrect air impedance load on the drivers.

When the mouths are close together, they will act more as a single unit, and the additional cabinets will help the others "load" to the air better.  This smooths out the low end response, which makes it "appear" to go lower, but in reality, there is just more overall output down low.  Yes, they will "go lower", but not as much as people would like them to.  Usually it is a couple of Hz at best.  That is not enough to argue about.  But the smoothing of the response is a useful result.

The other thing being talked about is simple combfiltering, or two signal arriving at a location at different times.

As Tim said, as long as the arrivals are within 1/4 wavelength, they will sum.  At 1/2 wavelength, they will cancel.

So the physical placement, relative to a listener position, is the key here.  The closer they are together, the better they will couple.

The same thing goes for all freq.  So consider what happens when you get up higher in freq, let's say 8Khz, which is around 1.75"  So 1/4 of that is .425".  So even 1/2" of arrival difference is not going to sum properly, and at 0.8", you will have cancellation.

So think about that when you look at a stack/array of loudspeakers and the physical distance between you and each of the elements in the array, and what is happening.

Of course as you go higher, the distances get smaller.

This is where the clarity of the signal gets messed up.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

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Re: help to cluster 4 horn subs
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2020, 08:44:09 am »


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