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[Russell Ault]

There are some brand-agnostic mic-pre's which then connect to a Dante network. Like this focusrite unit.

Strangely, that unit is one of the exceptions to the general rule about Dante device control being brand-specific. Yamaha has worked with a couple of manufacturers to enable CL/QL consoles to do more than just receive audio from some non-Yamaha Dante devices. The ones I know about (there may be others) are:

• CL/QL consoles can directly control the head amp, high-pass, and phantom power on Focusrite RedNet devices
• you can view the frequency, RF level, and battery level and adjust RX name and gain (and, in some cases, TX name and gain) of Shure QLX-D, ULX-D, and Axient Digital wireless microphones directly from a CL/QL console

To be clear, none of this is in any way standardized or really based on Dante (QLX-D microphones don't even have a Dante option), but it does start to present some possibilities that wouldn't otherwise be open, all the while muddying the waters about what Dante does and doesn't actually do.

-Russ

[Tim Weaver]

Strangely, that unit is one of the exceptions to the general rule about Dante device control being brand-specific. Yamaha has worked with a couple of manufacturers to enable CL/QL consoles to do more than just receive audio from some non-Yamaha Dante devices. The ones I know about (there may be others) are:

• CL/QL consoles can directly control the head amp, high-pass, and phantom power on Focusrite RedNet devices
• you can view the frequency, RF level, and battery level and adjust RX name and gain (and, in some cases, TX name and gain) of Shure QLX-D, ULX-D, and Axient Digital wireless microphones directly from a CL/QL console

To be clear, none of this is in any way standardized or really based on Dante (QLX-D microphones don't even have a Dante option), but it does start to present some possibilities that wouldn't otherwise be open, all the while muddying the waters about what Dante does and doesn't actually do.

-Russ

It's a start though. I'll say it's really cool when these things work out. Last year I had to put some powered speakers and one announce mic in a tent that was far away from everything, but had network run to it for vendors to use. I dropped an Atterotech 2x2 there and had an output and a mic level input that I could route to/from the main system. Worked great. The mic was an emergency announce mic. This tent was so far away from the main system that a wireless wouldn't reach reliably so I dropped a hardwired mic with a switch on it in the tent.

Would be awesome if Audinate published a "preamp control" standard. Then lots of people could build stageboxes that would just work.

[Miguel Dahl]

It's a start though. I'll say it's really cool when these things work out. Last year I had to put some powered speakers and one announce mic in a tent that was far away from everything, but had network run to it for vendors to use. I dropped an Atterotech 2x2 there and had an output and a mic level input that I could route to/from the main system. Worked great. The mic was an emergency announce mic. This tent was so far away from the main system that a wireless wouldn't reach reliably so I dropped a hardwired mic with a switch on it in the tent.

Would be awesome if Audinate published a "preamp control" standard. Then lots of people could build stageboxes that would just work.

I don't think this will happen. It's all about they money. If you can control a stage rack from manufacturer x from console manufacturer y, there have been some agreement behind that between those two.

If for instance a Yamaha console could control a "cheapo" stage rack from a different manufacturer. without a "deal".. I don't think they want that. Not only cold it make the "console" potentially sound bad, but they would lose out on the revenue for their own racks.

The "cheapo" rack-company would of course love this. But not the other way around.

[Rob Spence]

Strangely, that unit is one of the exceptions to the general rule about Dante device control being brand-specific. Yamaha has worked with a couple of manufacturers to enable CL/QL consoles to do more than just receive audio from some non-Yamaha Dante devices. The ones I know about (there may be others) are:

• CL/QL consoles can directly control the head amp, high-pass, and phantom power on Focusrite RedNet devices
• you can view the frequency, RF level, and battery level and adjust RX name and gain (and, in some cases, TX name and gain) of Shure QLX-D, ULX-D, and Axient Digital wireless microphones directly from a CL/QL console

To be clear, none of this is in any way standardized or really based on Dante (QLX-D microphones don't even have a Dante option), but it does start to present some possibilities that wouldn't otherwise be open, all the while muddying the waters about what Dante does and doesn't actually do.

-Russ

The bottom line is that Dante is an audio transport protocol.

Controlling head amps has nothing to do with transporting audio so, Dante doesn’t do it. Since Dante is running on a data network, that network can also transport any data that a console head amp function needs to the head amp controls on a stage box.

For interchangeability, there would need to be a standard (or at least generally agreed on) protocol for consoles to control stage box functions over a general tcp/ip data network. Doesn’t exist yet as far as I know.

[Helge A Bentsen]

We need a protocol like MIDI for headamp control. Simple and universally accepted.

[brian maddox]

We need a protocol like MIDI for headamp control. Simple and universally accepted.

And we're highly unlikely to get it any time soon.  There is too much to be gained by the manufacturers encouraging folks to stay within their ecosystem, particularly as the differences in capability between manufacturer offerings continue to diminish.

[Dave Garoutte]

So, what we need is some sort of converter from one protocol to another.

[Caleb Dueck]

For interchangeability, there would need to be a standard (or at least generally agreed on) protocol for consoles to control stage box functions over a general tcp/ip data network. Doesn’t exist yet as far as I know.

Back in the golden era of analog consoles - the preamps were physically connected to the mixing surface.  Digital snakes today simply 'stretched' them from the mixing surface to the stage - and eliminated the 'snake' as we knew it back then.  It didn't technically swap the analog snake for a digital snake.

From that mindset - the stage boxes and console surface are still one product, just now in multiple physical locations. 

Why would you want to mix and match brands anyway?  If you like Yamaha - you need both parts (surface and boxes).  If you like Digico - you need both parts.  Mixing and matching sums to the lowest denominator.  An SD12 surface with Behringer S16 stage boxes - is a Behringer with a fancy surface.  An X32 with an SD-Rack - is a Behringer with really expensive stage hardware. 

The only time external control makes sense is for manufacturers that don't make both parts - like Atterotech (QSC).  Although even they now have a vested interest in you buying the remote boxes along with their 'console' (QSys).  Say a new Dante throw-down manufacturer like Atterotech came along - how can selling misc boxes for a few hundred dollars each, with external preamp control - fit with all the support calls of helping end users make them work?  Why not rather the console, and now DSP, manufacturers produce inexpensive little Dante boxes that fit in their ecosystem?  That's what QSC is doing, and kind of A&H.   

[Dan Richardson]

So, what we need is some sort of converter from one protocol to another.

or, with Dante at least, a 3rd party app that reverse engineers everyone's head amp control protocols. Make it MIDI controllable.

[Dan Richardson]

or, with Dante at least, a 3rd party app that reverse engineers everyone's head amp control protocols. Make it MIDI controllable.

There's some progress on AES67 for interoperability. Any Current Dante device just needs a firmware update. QSC is on board from the other side.
Now to see if people will implement AES70 for universal control.

[ProSoundWeb Community]