ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Down

Author Topic: Thermal Speaker Failure with Yamaha DZR12  (Read 5460 times)

Debbie Dunkley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5663
  • Central North Carolina
Re: Thermal Speaker Failure with Yamaha DZR12
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2020, 05:33:07 PM »

I really hope I'm not going down that path again.......
Logged
A young child says to his mother, "Mom, when I grow up I'm going to be a musician." She replies, "Well honey, you know you can't do both."

Peter Kowalczyk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 255
Re: Thermal Speaker Failure with Yamaha DZR12
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2020, 11:07:10 PM »

I re-sold four DZR12s to two different clients, and both called me the SAME WEEKEND to report that a woofer had blown in one of theirs.  I didn't deduce a failure mechanism, but I don't recall it feeling like the VC had come unwound in the gap as Tim suggested, more like a total open-circuit.  In this case, there was NO LF at any level, different than the scenario that the OP is reporting.

When I looked at them, I found that the two damaged units had sequential serial numbers.  To the O/P - mine were UFYM01010 and UFYM01011; what are yours? 

Maybe just a coincidence, but the sequential S/N thing could suggest a 'localized' problem in manufacturing.  Or, since others of you are reporting similar failures, perhaps it is a design flaw.  It is my opinion that a self-powered speaker that is susceptible to blown drivers is flawed by design.  That's the whole point of tuning the amp and DSP to the specific drivers/enclosure/horn/ports of a given loudspeaker.

This happened almost a year ago now.  It took Yamaha over a month to get replacement drivers out; they claimed that they had no stock in the US.  I had to get a little snippy to get action.

I own 10 DSR112s and re-sold another 5 to a client.  They've been in service for years and not one woofer has failed.  Damn I love those boxes.  Too bad DZR's isn't as reliable.  Sure sounds good though. 

Regardless, to the OP - you should contact Yamaha and demand some new drivers.  PM me if you'd like my contact or any other details.
Logged

EDDIE GOLDBLUM

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5
Re: Thermal Speaker Failure with Yamaha DZR12
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2020, 02:17:48 PM »

I re-sold four DZR12s to two different clients, and both called me the SAME WEEKEND to report that a woofer had blown in one of theirs.  I didn't deduce a failure mechanism, but I don't recall it feeling like the VC had come unwound in the gap as Tim suggested, more like a total open-circuit.  In this case, there was NO LF at any level, different than the scenario that the OP is reporting.

When I looked at them, I found that the two damaged units had sequential serial numbers.  To the O/P - mine were UFYM01010 and UFYM01011; what are yours? 

Maybe just a coincidence, but the sequential S/N thing could suggest a 'localized' problem in manufacturing.  Or, since others of you are reporting similar failures, perhaps it is a design flaw.  It is my opinion that a self-powered speaker that is susceptible to blown drivers is flawed by design.  That's the whole point of tuning the amp and DSP to the specific drivers/enclosure/horn/ports of a given loudspeaker.

This happened almost a year ago now.  It took Yamaha over a month to get replacement drivers out; they claimed that they had no stock in the US.  I had to get a little snippy to get action.

I own 10 DSR112s and re-sold another 5 to a client.  They've been in service for years and not one woofer has failed.  Damn I love those boxes.  Too bad DZR's isn't as reliable.  Sure sounds good though. 

Regardless, to the OP - you should contact Yamaha and demand some new drivers.  PM me if you'd like my contact or any other details.
I already have this problem, with my DBR-10.
Is the same simptom. The speaker works fine, but if you turn up the bass a little bit, plus raise up the level of the volume, after a couple of minutes, the woofer start to smell like burned glue from coil.
The bizarre thing is, the limit led didn"t even blink, and no audible distortion, but the woofer smell. Of course, the mixer isn"t in the red zone. Far from that.
I have two DBR-10. The another problem was the power ON\OFF switches. They was completely burned after 6 months. I replace them with new ones, with 16 amps.
The old ones was rated at 2 amps only.
I really don"t know what happened with this company.
Next time i will buy a cheap {MADE IN CHINA} speaker. This DBR-10 speaker was a waste of money.
 
Logged

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 22312
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: Thermal Speaker Failure with Yamaha DZR12
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2020, 02:42:26 PM »

I already have this problem, with my DBR-10.
Is the same simptom. The speaker works fine, but if you turn up the bass a little bit, plus raise up the level of the volume, after a couple of minutes, the woofer start to smell like burned glue from coil.
The bizarre thing is, the limit led didn"t even blink, and no audible distortion, but the woofer smell. Of course, the mixer isn"t in the red zone. Far from that.
I have two DBR-10. The another problem was the power ON\OFF switches. They was completely burned after 6 months. I replace them with new ones, with 16 amps.
The old ones was rated at 2 amps only.
I really don"t know what happened with this company.
Next time i will buy a cheap {MADE IN CHINA} speaker. This DBR-10 speaker was a waste of money.

What type of audio are you using the DBR for?  If you're doing hip hop, EDM or rap, I submit you're sending it far, far too much LF info that the speaker is incapable of reproducing, and the nature of the extended time the extreme LF is present is the likely cause for the failure.

I own a pair of DBR12 and I use them for announcements, background music and the occasional live band doing acoustic music (the kind with more instruments than synths).  I was aware of the limitations of buying THE CHEAPEST POWERED SPEAKER YAMAHA MAKES.  Perhaps you were not, but in the end you purchased a product that is not up to your use.  That's not Yamaha's fault - in fact, that's why they make speakers that are 3x the price and still in the same form factor.
Logged
"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

EDDIE GOLDBLUM

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5
Re: Thermal Speaker Failure with Yamaha DZR12
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2020, 01:20:18 AM »

Tim,

The kind of music it"s not the main problem here.
Most of the time, the music is, Deep House or Latin Music.
The amp in the back of the speaker has a LIMIT LED, or CLIPPING. That red light should blinking, or turning on, to warning me, if the amp goes in the clip zone, BEFORE THE COILS ARE RUINED. I never see this led light, blink. The sound is clean, with no distortion, but the woofer coil is over heated. This speaker doesn"t have any kind of protection. Of course, they have this option, only on the owners manual. In the real life, this option doesn"t exist.
My personal conclusion is: The power amplifier in the back, is too strong for the speaker elements. There is nothing to warn the user, BEFORE the damage is done.
From the beginning, i was looking for 2 light and powerful speakers, for small events. I pay a lot of money, to buy a goo pair of speakers, with a very good reputation. The price in the store was similar, with the-RCF-710MK4, and it was a big mistake, to buy a-DBR-10.
I would never buy yamaha again.
Logged

Chris Grimshaw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1706
  • Sheffield, UK
    • Grimshaw Audio
Re: Thermal Speaker Failure with Yamaha DZR12
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2020, 07:58:33 AM »

Having actually measured the amplifier built into a Yamaha DBR10, I can say there is lots and lots of protection built-in. There's excursion limiting, peak limiting, and RMS limiting - just about everything needed to keep the LF driver from dying in any way except physical impact.

The "Limit" LED only lights up when peak or RMS limiting is happening. The excursion limiter kicks in much earlier, and does not light the LED. I don't know why, but I can guess it's from a user-friendliness point of view.

Now, you've said you smelt the 10" woofer burning but the sound is clean.
How have you made sure it's the woofer that is burning? Have you taken the woofer out, taken a knife to it and inspected the coil?

Chris
Logged
Sheffield-based sound engineering.
www.grimshawaudio.com

EDDIE GOLDBLUM

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5
Re: Thermal Speaker Failure with Yamaha DZR12
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2020, 11:00:55 AM »

No Chris. I didn"t took out the driver.
The smell goes out from the "bass reflex" holes, located on the bottom of the cabinet.
I didn"t {yet} burn out the woofer. When i start to smelt this, i turn down the volume on the mixer, by 10%, and the smell goes.
Have you ever saw the red light limit led, on the DBR-10, personally?
Logged

Chris Grimshaw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1706
  • Sheffield, UK
    • Grimshaw Audio
Re: Thermal Speaker Failure with Yamaha DZR12
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2020, 12:27:55 PM »

Yes, I have. Both when I tested the amplifier section, and in use.
No smells, and worked fine during and after.

I suspect you're just getting the last bit of glue curing smell - it'll probably pass in time. Other drivers have been noted to smell when brought to near their power handling capabilities, but don't fail until the limits have been exceeded by some margin.

Chris
Logged
Sheffield-based sound engineering.
www.grimshawaudio.com

EDDIE GOLDBLUM

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5
Re: Thermal Speaker Failure with Yamaha DZR12
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2020, 01:15:39 PM »

So, are you sure, the smell of the glue from the elements, it"s a normal  symptom?
The limit led will ever start to blinking, if i try to push them a little bit?
I don"t want to ruined the elements completely, but i need to know, if exist a minimal protection to the elements.
Logged

Debbie Dunkley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5663
  • Central North Carolina
Re: Thermal Speaker Failure with Yamaha DZR12
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2020, 01:25:25 PM »

So, are you sure, the smell of the glue from the elements, it"s a normal  symptom?
The limit led will ever start to blinking, if i try to push them a little bit?
I don"t want to ruined the elements completely, but i need to know, if exist a minimal protection to the elements.

You said you play 'Deep House' music yet you purchased entry level speakers from the Yamaha series. The DBR's are the cheapest model in the Yamaha series and are superb speakers in their class BUT can only perform to their capabilities. Any other speaker of similar specs and price would get you similar results so you have to look at your expectations and decide if they are beyond the speakers capabilities. If so , and it sounds like that is probably the case,  then you have no choice but to invest in speakers that will get you the results you seek OR lower your expectations.
Logged
A young child says to his mother, "Mom, when I grow up I'm going to be a musician." She replies, "Well honey, you know you can't do both."

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Thermal Speaker Failure with Yamaha DZR12
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2020, 01:25:25 PM »


Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Up
 



Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc.

Page created in 0.027 seconds with 21 queries.