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Author Topic: Thermal Speaker Failure with Yamaha DZR12  (Read 599 times)

Reece Johnson

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Thermal Speaker Failure with Yamaha DZR12
« on: January 17, 2020, 06:00:50 am »

Hi, I am the owner of 4 Yamaha DZR12 speakers. Iíve owned a lot of Yamaha gear before (the DSR115ís, DSR112ís, DXR15ís and more, however Iíve never blown a woofer before my DZRís. With my new DZRís, Iíve just blown my fourth mid/low woofer.
The reason Iím posting this is because these woofers have all blown from thermal failure during long gigs, without any limit/warning light coming on. Not even a flicker. I am very careful with my mixer to keep the signal clean.
The thing that surprised me is that I always run these tops with DXS18 subwoofers, crossing the signal over at 80 or 100hz. My DZRs have never run at full range apart from while testing at low levels.
The mixer I run them through is a DJM900nxs2 if that helps. The blown speakers all sound fine at low levels. I have to turn it to a decent level to start hearing any issues.
Is this normal for the processor / limiter to not realize that the voice coil is cooking after a few hours of high output? It was around 5 hours into my last gig that I noticed the speaker started crackling every now and then. Is there a chance that it is my mixer instead that is putting out a dirty signal? Iíd appreciate any opinions or similar experiences.
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: Thermal Speaker Failure with Yamaha DZR12
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2020, 09:10:01 am »

Hi, I am the owner of 4 Yamaha DZR12 speakers. Iíve owned a lot of Yamaha gear before (the DSR115ís, DSR112ís, DXR15ís and more, however Iíve never blown a woofer before my DZRís. With my new DZRís, Iíve just blown my fourth mid/low woofer.
The reason Iím posting this is because these woofers have all blown from thermal failure during long gigs, without any limit/warning light coming on. Not even a flicker. I am very careful with my mixer to keep the signal clean.
The thing that surprised me is that I always run these tops with DXS18 subwoofers, crossing the signal over at 80 or 100hz. My DZRs have never run at full range apart from while testing at low levels.
The mixer I run them through is a DJM900nxs2 if that helps. The blown speakers all sound fine at low levels. I have to turn it to a decent level to start hearing any issues.
Is this normal for the processor / limiter to not realize that the voice coil is cooking after a few hours of high output? It was around 5 hours into my last gig that I noticed the speaker started crackling every now and then. Is there a chance that it is my mixer instead that is putting out a dirty signal? Iíd appreciate any opinions or similar experiences.

Hi,
Welcome to the forum but just a heads-up....
You'll need to change your display name to your real name - as per forum rules when you signed up - before anyone is allowed to address your question.
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ADAD MCQUEEN

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Re: Thermal Speaker Failure with Yamaha DZR12
« Reply #2 on: February 29, 2020, 03:49:02 am »

Hello Reece,

I had the same thing happen to my DZR12 just during testing and comparing to the DSR112. I think the problem is the DSP is not tuned correctly by Yamaha. This boxes go down alot lower than the DSRs but they do a poor job of rolling off the bass as you turn them up. Although rated at 139peak SPL theres no way bass frequencies will have that much output without destroying the woofer unless the bass is rolled off. Unfortunately the grills are covered by foam so you cannot see if the woofer is bottoming out or not. Its also possible that the amps might be sending DC  to the woofers as you turn them up. I say this because you had yours crossed over at 80 to 100 Hz but still had the same problem as mine running full range.

I think the DZRs could use a stronger woofer. I can max out my DSR112s all day long with no distortion or blown drivers but again they are not designed to go as low as the DZRs.

The DZRs sound really good but they obviously have a reliability problem that really needs to be addressed. We should not have to keep replacing drivers especially when we are not even driving them very hard. Hopefully Yamaha is coming up with a real fix that does not compromise the performance that we are paying for.

I was very sad that they discontinued  the DSR112s.

Give me a call if you wanna discuss this further.321-301-9271


Cheers

Adam
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Steve-White

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Re: Thermal Speaker Failure with Yamaha DZR12
« Reply #3 on: February 29, 2020, 10:07:51 am »

Reece, I don't have any experience with the Yamaha's you are using.  That being said, gear it gear and it all has a breaking point.

That's something we all learn, to understand optimal performance from any combination, a few pieces need to be sacrificed and sent to the promised land.

Amps/Speakers have optimal performance regions in their performance.  When exceeded, something that has a lifespan of say 10-20 years, will be shortened to years, months, weeks, days or hours.  How much, it depends upon how far it's pushed up the hill beyond it's maximum operating limits.  Just a little, and lifespan will begin to shorten, progressively decreasing as it's driven harder and harder.

That's the only way to learn this, is to destroy some gear.  Understand the gain structure of your system, and how hard you are driving it - gotta have a solid reference point.  Then you will be able to determine how much it can take and for how long.

Then you can formulate a course of action:  Turn it down, replace woofers with more robust drivers, address limiters, more gear, different gear, and so on.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2020, 12:14:34 pm by Steve-White »
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Keith Broughton

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Re: Thermal Speaker Failure with Yamaha DZR12
« Reply #4 on: February 29, 2020, 10:30:53 am »


Then you can determine a course of action:  Turn it down, replace woofers with more robust drivers, address limiters and so on.
While you make a good point , "I think the problem is the DSP is not tuned correctly by Yamaha" is a valid point as well.
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Steve-White

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Re: Thermal Speaker Failure with Yamaha DZR12
« Reply #5 on: February 29, 2020, 12:19:31 pm »

While you make a good point , "I think the problem is the DSP is not tuned correctly by Yamaha" is a valid point as well.

It's a very valid point.  It could be set to prevent instantaneous catastrophic failure - but, should be more of an RMS limiter that would best protect the gear over a myriad of conditions.

Which this segues into:  "That's the only way to learn this, is to destroy some gear.  Understand the gain structure of your system (includes limiting), and how hard you are driving it - gotta have a solid reference point.  Then you will be able to determine how much it can take and for how long."

Yes indeed, the proverbial learning curve.  :)
« Last Edit: March 02, 2020, 08:45:01 pm by Steve-White »
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Magnus HŲgkvist

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Re: Thermal Speaker Failure with Yamaha DZR12
« Reply #6 on: February 29, 2020, 12:23:25 pm »

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Mike Pyle

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Re: Thermal Speaker Failure with Yamaha DZR12
« Reply #7 on: February 29, 2020, 01:14:34 pm »

You should contact Yamaha about possible warranty.
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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: Thermal Speaker Failure with Yamaha DZR12
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2020, 04:29:51 am »

It's a very valid point.  It could be set to prevent instantaneous catastrophic failure - but, should be more of an RMS limiter that would best protect the gear over a myriad of conditions.

When I tested a lower-end Yamaha model, there was an RMS limiter that kicked in after a few seconds, and dropped the (sine wave) output down to something like 10v RMS.
I'd be shocked if the DZR didn't have something similar, but it's possible that it isn't configured correctly.

IIRC, there's no way of getting into these speakers to reprogram them, so they might end up recalled if Yamaha admits there's a problem.

Chris
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Thermal Speaker Failure with Yamaha DZR12
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2020, 02:14:57 pm »

Thermal failure means continuous operation above the temperature limits of the coil former, adhesives, or voice coil wire insulation, or the solder...  typically the voice coil comes unwound in the gap and it's a right royal mess to clean up and re-cone.  IF the adhesive holding the coil former to the spider/cone is failing while the voice coil remains intact, or the adhesive holding the spider to the motor assembly fails, that's a Yamaha warranty problem.

The description above makes me think of adhesive failure - the speaker might sound okay at low levels but when excursion becomes greater the failure becomes obvious.  It's also possible that an un-wound coil would kind of work at low levels but again, once excursion picks up, the failure would be audible.

I'd be seeking Yamaha warranty service, but if the same unit has gone back 4 times, Yammy needs to say *why* it's overheating.
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Re: Thermal Speaker Failure with Yamaha DZR12
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