ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Down

Author Topic: Trunk ports in the Yamaha SWP1-switches  (Read 1538 times)

Miguel Dahl

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 437
Trunk ports in the Yamaha SWP1-switches
« on: January 16, 2020, 06:59:11 pm »

When reading the various documentations for this switch I can't figure out if it's possible to use one EtherCon-connector to be used as a trunk port for VLANs. From the graphics and descriptions I see it's either use the OpticalCon as trunk, or use TWO Ethercons? One for each VLAN (If there's only two VLANs). If using two, then it's one for each VLAN, which doesn't make it to one single trunk port?

And. I can't find the documentation for setting up the switch in "user" mode. Can I create as many VLANs as I want?

In other words. Can I use one EtherCon-connector as a trunk port for several VLANs on this switch?

« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 07:01:19 pm by Miguel Dahl »
Logged

Andrew Broughton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1746
    • Check Check One Two
Re: Trunk ports in the Yamaha SWP1-switches
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2020, 11:27:31 am »

Preset "B" allows you to use ANY of the connections - 15 or 16 (EtherCon) or 17 or 18 (OpticalCon)

To set it up in the USER mode, use the Yamaha LAN manager software (Windows only)
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/proaudio/network_switches/swp1/downloads.html
Logged
-Andy

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle..."

http://www.checkcheckonetwo.com
Saving lives through Digital Audio, Programming and Electronics.

Miguel Dahl

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 437
Re: Trunk ports in the Yamaha SWP1-switches
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2020, 06:18:10 pm »

I was fast as usual. Setting "C" depicts a redundant cable setup, as it clearly states. But in the user manual for the switch, and the software it didn't say if I can setup as many VLANs as I want, unless I'm even more blind than I already know I am (Just ask the madam, I can rarely find anything).
Logged

Andrew Broughton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1746
    • Check Check One Two
Re: Trunk ports in the Yamaha SWP1-switches
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2020, 07:45:54 pm »

I was fast as usual. Setting "C" depicts a redundant cable setup, as it clearly states. But in the user manual for the switch, and the software it didn't say if I can setup as many VLANs as I want, unless I'm even more blind than I already know I am (Just ask the madam, I can rarely find anything).
Yeah, preset "B" is what you u want if you don't want to create your own.
The manual has very little information, especially if you want to do anything non-standard.
You'll have to download the Lan Manager software and click on the Web GUI to configure the USER settings. (I haven't actually needed to change anything, but that's what my understanding is on how you do it)
You might be able to simply log into the switch if you know it's IP, without running the Lan Manager software, but again, I haven't tried that.
Logged
-Andy

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle..."

http://www.checkcheckonetwo.com
Saving lives through Digital Audio, Programming and Electronics.

Miguel Dahl

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 437
Re: Trunk ports in the Yamaha SWP1-switches
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2020, 08:27:07 pm »

Yeah, preset "B" is what you u want if you don't want to create your own.
The manual has very little information, especially if you want to do anything non-standard.
You'll have to download the Lan Manager software and click on the Web GUI to configure the USER settings. (I haven't actually needed to change anything, but that's what my understanding is on how you do it)
You might be able to simply log into the switch if you know it's IP, without running the Lan Manager software, but again, I haven't tried that.

Yes. I know what one need to do. But the manual for the web-GUI does not contain the information to what I'm curious about. Is there a limit, or not?

We need new switches, and I want these, because "anybody" can operate them, and reconfigure them on the fly, with "A/B/C" default settings.

But the manual only covers two VLANs. I want to know if it's doable to do more, and use one trunk over cat 5/6 etc. For instance: Dante, Control, and one or two VLANs for our guy doing the illumination, or guest consoles.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2020, 08:35:33 pm by Miguel Dahl »
Logged

Andrew Broughton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1746
    • Check Check One Two
Re: Trunk ports in the Yamaha SWP1-switches
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2020, 01:38:05 pm »

Understood. You might need to contact Yamaha to ask that question. You're right that the manual doesn't go through the GUI in any sort of detail.
I may be back in front of these switches next week and can check.

My apologies, I thought you had one of these switches already.
Logged
-Andy

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle..."

http://www.checkcheckonetwo.com
Saving lives through Digital Audio, Programming and Electronics.

Andrew Broughton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1746
    • Check Check One Two
Re: Trunk ports in the Yamaha SWP1-switches
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2020, 01:49:43 pm »

BTW, if you have the budget, these switches are the best I've ever seen for the Yamaha stuff. The SWP2 with the dual 10g Fibercons are the bomb.

Oh, look - I found a better manual. It says:
"Up to 256 VLANs can be created including the default VLAN (VLAN ID = 1)."

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/proaudio/network_switches/swp2/downloads.html#product-tabsDownload "Technical Data". It's an HTML file with plenty of info about the SWP2.


I can't see any reason to get the SWP1, it's only a few bucks cheaper and doesn't have the 2nd FiberCon or the 10g uplinks.
Logged
-Andy

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle..."

http://www.checkcheckonetwo.com
Saving lives through Digital Audio, Programming and Electronics.

Andrew Broughton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1746
    • Check Check One Two
Re: Trunk ports in the Yamaha SWP1-switches
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2020, 01:55:49 pm »

Logged
-Andy

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle..."

http://www.checkcheckonetwo.com
Saving lives through Digital Audio, Programming and Electronics.

Jean-Pierre Coetzee

  • Classic LAB
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 862
  • Gauteng, South Africa
Re: Trunk ports in the Yamaha SWP1-switches
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2020, 02:21:25 am »

If you have a need to be running come complex networking why not just get a managed switch from another manufacture and create an Ethercon patch panel?
Logged
Audio Technician
Word & Life Church

"If you want "loud", then run a piece of sheet metal through a table saw------

If you want "watts"-then plug in a toaster"
- Ivan Beaver

Andrew Broughton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1746
    • Check Check One Two
Re: Trunk ports in the Yamaha SWP1-switches
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2020, 12:12:32 pm »

If you have a need to be running come complex networking why not just get a managed switch from another manufacture and create an Ethercon patch panel?

Because the Yamaha is better and easier?
Logged
-Andy

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle..."

http://www.checkcheckonetwo.com
Saving lives through Digital Audio, Programming and Electronics.

Miguel Dahl

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 437
Re: Trunk ports in the Yamaha SWP1-switches
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2020, 11:10:58 am »

If you have a need to be running come complex networking why not just get a managed switch from another manufacture and create an Ethercon patch panel?

Been thinking about that route as well. But I guess we've settled on just getting something which works out of the box, which is very easy configurable. One shouldn't be able to go wrong with these unless one tampers with the configs. It would take a few hours to asseble the thing, also buying all connectors, cables, and some more hours to understand how to set it up and operate it.

If the SWP2 is just a pinch more expensive than the SWP1 then I'll look into those too. We're not doing jobs big enough where a 1G ethercon shouldn't be enough, we don't own a fibrecable and we've never needed to use one. But it seems like SWP2 can only do 10 ethercon/RJ45 connections, where the SWP1-16 can do 16.
Logged

Riley Casey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1546
Re: Trunk ports in the Yamaha SWP1-switches
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2020, 12:14:53 pm »

The first time you need to go even close to 100 meters of cable fiber is the only answer.  I don't know where you're located but in most major markets in the US Ethercon equipped optical fiber is readily cross-rented when needed.

... we don't own a fibrecable and we've never needed to use one. But it seems like SWP2 can only do 10 ethercon/RJ45 connections, where the SWP1-16 can do 16.

Miguel Dahl

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 437
Re: Trunk ports in the Yamaha SWP1-switches
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2020, 12:26:46 pm »

The first time you need to go even close to 100 meters of cable fiber is the only answer.  I don't know where you're located but in most major markets in the US Ethercon equipped optical fiber is readily cross-rented when needed.

Why? We use 100m Cat6 all the time for Dante and control networks.
Logged

Caleb Dueck

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1305
Re: Trunk ports in the Yamaha SWP1-switches
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2020, 09:41:01 pm »

Why? We use 100m Cat6 all the time for Dante and control networks.

The issue isn't so much 'will it pass signal'; rather it's 'we estimated 95m and now it's a 115m run'. 

Now that I'm working with fiber more and see how it's no longer crazy expensive, and instead it's durable - why not. 
Logged
Experience is something you get right after you need it.

brian maddox

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2579
  • HeyYahWon! ttsss! ttsss!
Re: Trunk ports in the Yamaha SWP1-switches
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2020, 10:15:09 pm »

The issue isn't so much 'will it pass signal'; rather it's 'we estimated 95m and now it's a 115m run'. 

Now that I'm working with fiber more and see how it's no longer crazy expensive, and instead it's durable - why not.

yup.

Logged
"It feels wrong to be in the audience.  And it's too peopley!" - Steve Smith

brian maddox
bdmaudio@gmail.com

'...do not trifle with the affairs of dragons...

       ....for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup...'

Miguel Dahl

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 437
Re: Trunk ports in the Yamaha SWP1-switches
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2020, 09:18:52 am »

The issue isn't so much 'will it pass signal'; rather it's 'we estimated 95m and now it's a 115m run'. 

Now that I'm working with fiber more and see how it's no longer crazy expensive, and instead it's durable - why not.

Then I see your point. But we're not even close to 100m runs, it's just that the cables are 100m. My guess is that the typical foh-stage run is maximum 50-60 meters. That's why I meant that we've never been close to fiber-land usage. If we find ourself in a close to 100m run situation we'll just have to deal with that in some way down the road.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 09:21:15 am by Miguel Dahl »
Logged

Jean-Pierre Coetzee

  • Classic LAB
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 862
  • Gauteng, South Africa
Re: Trunk ports in the Yamaha SWP1-switches
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2020, 11:49:39 am »

Because the Yamaha is better and easier?

Considering the question that was asked I questioned that. I agree with the Yamaha products for a Dante only network but at that point why do you even need a managed switch, some RIOs connected to even two-three consoles shouldn't need managed switches.
Logged
Audio Technician
Word & Life Church

"If you want "loud", then run a piece of sheet metal through a table saw------

If you want "watts"-then plug in a toaster"
- Ivan Beaver

Andrew Broughton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1746
    • Check Check One Two
Re: Trunk ports in the Yamaha SWP1-switches
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2020, 12:09:20 pm »

The first time you need to go even close to 100 meters of cable fiber is the only answer.
Why? We use 100m Cat6 all the time for Dante and control networks.
Personally, after the headaches I've had with 100m CAT5/6 cables, I won't even use it if the chunk is over 80m. All I  use is fibre for the FOH run on tour and request it of suppliers. I require that if the supplier does not have fiber that his CAT cable MUST be 80m or under, no exceptions.
Once you've had the sort of random issues you can get with CAT cable at 100m, you'll want to upgrade. If you haven't had any problems so far, then good for you!
Logged
-Andy

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle..."

http://www.checkcheckonetwo.com
Saving lives through Digital Audio, Programming and Electronics.

Miguel Dahl

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 437
Re: Trunk ports in the Yamaha SWP1-switches
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2020, 01:02:02 pm »

Personally, after the headaches I've had with 100m CAT5/6 cables, I won't even use it if the chunk is over 80m. All I  use is fibre for the FOH run on tour and request it of suppliers. I require that if the supplier does not have fiber that his CAT cable MUST be 80m or under, no exceptions.
Once you've had the sort of random issues you can get with CAT cable at 100m, you'll want to upgrade. If you haven't had any problems so far, then good for you!

Maybe so. But we have had zero issues with our cables and Dante, for over a year, used "often". We did have some serious issues with Cat7 though, that just didn't work over 70 meters or such with dante clocking, but that reel had ethercon connecters in the reel, so one would have to extend beyond 70 meters to connect to the console. But with the heavy duty Cat6, no stress at all so far.

Our cables are 100m end to end, there's no patch at the reel, so it's 100M max from endpoint to endpoint.
Logged

Magnus Högkvist

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 142
Re: Trunk ports in the Yamaha SWP1-switches
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2020, 12:21:10 pm »

Then I see your point. But we're not even close to 100m runs, it's just that the cables are 100m. My guess is that the typical foh-stage run is maximum 50-60 meters. That's why I meant that we've never been close to fiber-land usage. If we find ourself in a close to 100m run situation we'll just have to deal with that in some way down the road.

Well it doesn't matter if it's 10 cm or 100 meters foh-stage if the cable is 100 meters...
Logged

Miguel Dahl

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 437
Re: Trunk ports in the Yamaha SWP1-switches
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2020, 01:34:20 pm »

Well it doesn't matter if it's 10 cm or 100 meters foh-stage if the cable is 100 meters...

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here? Our cables are 100m, endpoint to end point, always worked flawlessly. From what I read from the poster above here it was something like  "If you're planning for a 90 meter run, and it turns out you need do run it elsewhere than planned, you might have to go 115m".. We're not running into those situations, as we don't have long runs, and have lots of spare on the reel if we would need to go longer than our pretty standard 50-60 meter runs. 100m is up to spec, and it haven't let us down yet. I don't understand why a standard which is stated from the maker of the equipment used, confirmed by real life usage should suddenly not work unless there's some damage done to the equipment.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 01:42:06 pm by Miguel Dahl »
Logged

brian maddox

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 2579
  • HeyYahWon! ttsss! ttsss!
Re: Trunk ports in the Yamaha SWP1-switches
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2020, 05:24:51 pm »

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here? Our cables are 100m, endpoint to end point, always worked flawlessly. From what I read from the poster above here it was something like  "If you're planning for a 90 meter run, and it turns out you need do run it elsewhere than planned, you might have to go 115m".. We're not running into those situations, as we don't have long runs, and have lots of spare on the reel if we would need to go longer than our pretty standard 50-60 meter runs. 100m is up to spec, and it haven't let us down yet. I don't understand why a standard which is stated from the maker of the equipment used, confirmed by real life usage should suddenly not work unless there's some damage done to the equipment.

That last sentence is the key.  100m is the upper standard limit and so long as your cable is within spec and undamaged, it'll work just fine.  But cables DO get damaged from normal wear and tear and that damage is often not visible externally.  This combined with the cable being at the upper limit of the standard can combine to create intermittent failures, which always seem to show themselves AFTER the show starts.

None of this means you're wrong to use the cable you're using.  You know your gear and you know your show situations.  But those of us who are often using OTHER people's gear in perhaps a wider variety of show situations tend to be a bit more cautious.  Up to about 50m i prefer copper for it's simplicity and at those distances there is a little bit more wiggle room if there a small crimp in the cable of whatever.  But past that i'll take fiber every time.  It's just a safer alternative.
Logged
"It feels wrong to be in the audience.  And it's too peopley!" - Steve Smith

brian maddox
bdmaudio@gmail.com

'...do not trifle with the affairs of dragons...

       ....for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup...'

Jelmer de Jong

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 171
Re: Trunk ports in the Yamaha SWP1-switches
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2020, 06:54:02 pm »

Add to it that every (ethercon)patch in between eats away roughly 5 meters of the 100 meter max.
Logged

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Trunk ports in the Yamaha SWP1-switches
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2020, 06:54:02 pm »


Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.062 seconds with 24 queries.