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Author Topic: EAW LA400 Used sub or plans for something similar or maybe a labsub  (Read 2073 times)

Rolando Saenz

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Re: EAW LA400 Used sub or plans for something similar or maybe a labsub
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2020, 07:26:02 pm »

If you want the smallest possible box with the lowest response then just build a reflex cab with one of the best drivers available like the neodymium B&C 18sw115, the tradeoffs are the drivers are expensive and will require lots of power to fully utilize but there is probably no better solution for a single operator.

Thanks Paul.
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Rolando Saenz

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Re: EAW LA400 Used sub or plans for something similar or maybe a labsub
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2020, 07:28:31 pm »

No, I didn't. It was a sale from a closed company and they didn't wish to split a KF760/BH760 package in the end.
Haven't given up yet about owning some horns again one day. My Labsubs set of car alarms outside once during soundcheck. Never done that with a front-loaded sub.

So Helge,
between labsub or keystones
lets assume you havent build the labsubs before
what you will choose and why?
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Helge A Bentsen

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Re: EAW LA400 Used sub or plans for something similar or maybe a labsub
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2020, 03:32:22 am »

So Helge,
between labsub or keystones
lets assume you havent build the labsubs before
what you will choose and why?

I haven't heard a Keystone sub so I can't comment on their relative performance.

What I will say is that IF you have the logistics and people available, Labsubs are pretty serious subs but you need to use them in multiples.
I have no reason to doubt Art's design skills, at one point I was going to build a Keystone to test it but the project derailed and I sold it. The guy who finished it claims that it worked very well.
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Mark Wilkinson

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Re: EAW LA400 Used sub or plans for something similar or maybe a labsub
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2020, 09:04:04 am »

If you want the smallest possible box with the lowest response then just build a reflex cab with one of the best drivers available like the neodymium B&C 18sw115, the tradeoffs are the drivers are expensive and will require lots of power to fully utilize but there is probably no better solution for a single operator.

+1
I don't think there is an easier way to get to 30Hz (or below). 
Only problems are cost of excellent drivers, and unless crazy heavy, box(s) will want to walk around. Keep some sandbags around  ;)
I built some single 18"s using bms 18n862, and they reach 30Hz f-3 handily. More like f-1 really.
Check out data-bass if you haven't already....my vented build is just a little bigger than the build shown there.

another +1
to comments saying there is a big difference between 30Hz and 40Hz

I have 4 labsubs that i consider awesome, but unless I need all their SPL, i prefer the bass reflexes for the extra extension
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Rolando Saenz

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Re: EAW LA400 Used sub or plans for something similar or maybe a labsub
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2020, 11:12:47 am »

+1
I don't think there is an easier way to get to 30Hz (or below). 
Only problems are cost of excellent drivers, and unless crazy heavy, box(s) will want to walk around. Keep some sandbags around  ;)
I built some single 18"s using bms 18n862, and they reach 30Hz f-3 handily. More like f-1 really.
Check out data-bass if you haven't already....my vented build is just a little bigger than the build shown there.

another +1
to comments saying there is a big difference between 30Hz and 40Hz

I have 4 labsubs that i consider awesome, but unless I need all their SPL, i prefer the bass reflexes for the extra extension

Mark,
can you share the 18 singles plans you build
and regarding the labsubs
you can't run singles right ? you need 2 at least or you need 4 minimum
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Mark Wilkinson

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Re: EAW LA400 Used sub or plans for something similar or maybe a labsub
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2020, 12:36:06 pm »

Mark,
can you share the 18 singles plans you build
and regarding the labsubs
you can't run singles right ? you need 2 at least or you need 4 minimum

Here's a thread i posted about them a while back.  It will give you a good enough sense to know if you want to continue. If so, just lemme know and i'll send you the exact port details, which are no more than 4 triangular corner ports (ports plus bracing all in one ya know :)
https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,163594.0.html

I've found I can safely run them lower than the traces shown in that thread, from a year's experience with a similar build, a dual 18" bass reflex using the same drivers and porting.
https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,166841.0.html

As for labhorns, I've never tried to use one alone unless it was indoors pointing into a corner.  The 'into the corner extra mouth extension' definitely helps both SPL and lower extension. Two corner stacked labhorns remains one of the most impressive audio surprises i've had  ;D

Don't mean to be thread referencing you to death but here's one i put up on labhorns moons ago..it will at least let you see some response curves for 2 and 4 at a time...
https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,161015.0.html


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Rolando Saenz

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Re: EAW LA400 Used sub or plans for something similar or maybe a labsub
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2020, 01:41:18 pm »

Here's a thread i posted about them a while back.  It will give you a good enough sense to know if you want to continue. If so, just lemme know and i'll send you the exact port details, which are no more than 4 triangular corner ports (ports plus bracing all in one ya know :)
https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,163594.0.html

I've found I can safely run them lower than the traces shown in that thread, from a year's experience with a similar build, a dual 18" bass reflex using the same drivers and porting.
https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,166841.0.html

As for labhorns, I've never tried to use one alone unless it was indoors pointing into a corner.  The 'into the corner extra mouth extension' definitely helps both SPL and lower extension. Two corner stacked labhorns remains one of the most impressive audio surprises i've had  ;D

Don't mean to be thread referencing you to death but here's one i put up on labhorns moons ago..it will at least let you see some response curves for 2 and 4 at a time...
https://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,161015.0.html

Thanks Mark

love that push pull sub you made, looks like that is the one i will start on 1st,
i already downloaded the PDF plans on the google drive link

questions, 
is there other drivers i can use on it ? as BMS is hard to get in the states, looks like there is only one distributor
i saw 2 bracing parts but is that all  or you need to add more bracing to prevent box flexing?
do you use duratex or bedliner to coat the boxes?

also i saw that someone posted this
https://www.behr.com/consumer/products/wood-stains-finishes-cleaners-and-strippers/advanced-deckover?gclid=Cj0KCQiA04XxBRD5ARIsAGFygj-vYPWZkuOd__zK0P5NyaPYKqafzSrUmSCQnPveM6jyZCLz2IEm3RkaAk0PEALw_wcB

to finish the cabinets
what you recommend

btw did you see the 2 plans i posted about  double 18's , one from b&c and the other from 18sound
anyway here are the links so you dont need to move a finger :D

http://www.eighteensound.com/media/W1siZiIsIjIwMTgvMTAvMjMvMTFfNDBfMDVfMjI0XzE4c291bmRfMThfZHVhbF9zdWJ3b29mZXJfa2l0LnBkZiJdXQ/18sound_18_dual_subwoofer_kit.pdf

https://bcspeakers.com/media/W1siZiIsIjIwMTkvMDUvMDkvMTJfNDhfNTFfNzQ5X1MyMThBTi5wZGYiXV0/S218AN.pdf

and last but not least, i just read about driver sag
so that happens to any speaker regardless of orientation ?
you need to rotate the cabinets like every 6 months or so when in storage like when you rotate your bedrooms bed matress ? :D
« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 02:29:39 pm by Rolando Saenz »
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Mark Wilkinson

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Re: EAW LA400 Used sub or plans for something similar or maybe a labsub
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2020, 04:46:06 pm »

Thanks Mark

love that push pull sub you made, looks like that is the one i will start on 1st,
i already downloaded the PDF plans on the google drive link

questions, 
is there other drivers i can use on it ? as BMS is hard to get in the states, looks like there is only one distributor
i saw 2 bracing parts but is that all  or you need to add more bracing to prevent box flexing?
do you use duratex or bedliner to coat the boxes?

also i saw that someone posted this
https://www.behr.com/consumer/products/wood-stains-finishes-cleaners-and-strippers/advanced-deckover?gclid=Cj0KCQiA04XxBRD5ARIsAGFygj-vYPWZkuOd__zK0P5NyaPYKqafzSrUmSCQnPveM6jyZCLz2IEm3RkaAk0PEALw_wcB

to finish the cabinets
what you recommend

btw did you see the 2 plans i posted about  double 18's , one from b&c and the other from 18sound
anyway here are the links so you dont need to move a finger :D

http://www.eighteensound.com/media/W1siZiIsIjIwMTgvMTAvMjMvMTFfNDBfMDVfMjI0XzE4c291bmRfMThfZHVhbF9zdWJ3b29mZXJfa2l0LnBkZiJdXQ/18sound_18_dual_subwoofer_kit.pdf

https://bcspeakers.com/media/W1siZiIsIjIwMTkvMDUvMDkvMTJfNDhfNTFfNzQ5X1MyMThBTi5wZGYiXV0/S218AN.pdf

and last but not least, i just read about driver sag
so that happens to any speaker regardless of orientation ?
you need to rotate the cabinets like every 6 months or so when in storage like when you rotate your bedrooms bed matress ? :D

I'm sure there are other drivers that would work well in a push-push opposed sub, but it would probably pay to use hornresp to optimize the box a bit around the chosen driver.
I've found hornresp sims very close, other than the triangular ports measure/act a little longer than what hornresp predicts for a given port length.

Yep, there is more bracing inside...not alot ...mainly 5/8" x 1.5" struts running around, cutting down uninterrupted spans.  Brace to taste !

I use duratex which is decent paint and very easy to use.  It does kinda grey a bit though, and stick box to box when left packed.
I would not DIY bedliner...tried that.  The behr stuff looks promising imo.

Must admit I do pay attention to driver rotation on the push-push...budget demands it :)    But all it takes is flip the boxes over or lay them down.
And although sag has to be real, as physics demand it, I don't think too many folks think it's much of a problem. I mean, look how horizontally inclined a driver in a tapped horn is...I've never heard a mention of cone sag there....

I like the 18sound sub you linked. 
The B&C looks very port constrained.
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Rolando Saenz

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Re: EAW LA400 Used sub or plans for something similar or maybe a labsub
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2020, 09:02:23 pm »

I'm sure there are other drivers that would work well in a push-push opposed sub, but it would probably pay to use hornresp to optimize the box a bit around the chosen driver.
I've found hornresp sims very close, other than the triangular ports measure/act a little longer than what hornresp predicts for a given port length.

Yep, there is more bracing inside...not alot ...mainly 5/8" x 1.5" struts running around, cutting down uninterrupted spans.  Brace to taste !

I use duratex which is decent paint and very easy to use.  It does kinda grey a bit though, and stick box to box when left packed.
I would not DIY bedliner...tried that.  The behr stuff looks promising imo.

Must admit I do pay attention to driver rotation on the push-push...budget demands it :)    But all it takes is flip the boxes over or lay them down.
And although sag has to be real, as physics demand it, I don't think too many folks think it's much of a problem. I mean, look how horizontally inclined a driver in a tapped horn is...I've never heard a mention of cone sag there....

I like the 18sound sub you linked. 
The B&C looks very port constrained.

both 18 sound and b&c have many designs in their web page , there are 1 horn in each webpage , many bandpass single and double drivers and reflex also
plus tops cab plans
http://www.eighteensound.com/en/resources/suggested-designs/

https://www.bcspeakers.com/resources/suggested-designs/

lol by the way they name their webpage structure maybe they are parent companies

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Mal Brown

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Re: EAW LA400 Used sub or plans for something similar or maybe a labsub
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2020, 12:20:42 am »

I am compelled ...  My 4 LA400's are just musical.  I love 'em.  To my ear they sound better than any direct radiating  18 based box I've heard.  Yep.  Frequency and volume limited in comparison to later generations but they just sound damned good at what they do.  If I were playing with someone else's equity maybe I'd be looking to upgrade in SPL... but i'm not and I'm not.   I've done 2500 with those 4 comfortably.  Each pair is on one side of a PLX2 3102. 

If I were upgrading Orbit Shifters would be first on my list but I'm not...
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Re: EAW LA400 Used sub or plans for something similar or maybe a labsub
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2020, 12:20:42 am »


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