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[Craig Hauber]

I posted a while back about improving i-mag quality and all your responses were very helpful.
The tour is done and I have adequately recovered  -for this year at least but plans are being made for next year already in hopes to stave-off any last-minute compromises.

Some more questions I have for those of you who know pro video and do it far more often than I do.

Wiring:
It appears that Belden 1694a is the standard for HD-SDI work.  There's a 1694f in the catalog, what's better for tour use? 
I need 200' runs for FOH to rear projectors as well as several 100' runs for cams.  Used 1694a on this last tour but not sure if it's intended for constant wrapping/unwrapping along with the occasional walk-on floor/doorway/aisle tape-down? 
If the "f" (flexible) version is better for this is there a maximum length penalty -I doubt it will ever see more than 1080P/60 use.
Is there a minimum bend radius? -if I use a spool I will need to know minimum drum diameter.
Is there a cable tester out there that I can verify the total run attenuation if I suspect a line was compromised in any way?

Camera:
I use a couple close-up stationary cams on stage (piano keyboard, percussionist, steel guitar etc...) for art shots.  Is there a smaller solution than using retired pro camcorders on large tripods?  I would like something tiny that could mount on round-base mic stands and go straight to SDI instead of having to use a blackmagic convertor from HDMI. 
Years ago I remember trying cctv cams (SD composite) and was never happy with the image quality and lens distortion.  Have newer digital "HD" cams improved at all? Or are there specific products that video pros use for this. 
The JVC and Sony pro camcoders we used had excellent picture, color and low-light capabilities that definitely spoiled me away from most consumer devices I've been exploring since. 
-But they were sometimes difficult to fit in and around the set without being too ugly for the audience or trip hazards for the cast.

primary FOH i-mag cam:
The HD Sony camcorder I used worked well within 50' of the stage. 
However often there simply wasn't an available position and had to run from next to the booth and I couldn't get a close-enough zoom shot for usable i-mag.
I had issues when the projected image is barely larger than real-life -a waist-up shot filling the screen was my minimum goal. 
What does everyone else use for longer distance i-mag (no more than 100') -and what's a decent tripod for this where the slightest twitch bounces the image badly!  I did OK when I was able to set up next to my switcher because I learned the feel of the tripod head (manfrotto) but when I needed a separate camera operator due to placement it was a total crap-shoot.
We of course are on a tight budget so if there's an external lens add-on for the existing cam I can buy/rent for the tour that would be awesome.  Or if anyone reading this is dark during that season and has an affordably rentable setup please PM me)

Projector and Screen:
What is a good short-throw setup? 
We had a decently bright but older presentation projector that needed to be at least 16' back from the screen and often we just didn't have that much space available behind the set.  (in the older auditoriums mostly) 
We also had a backup classroom whiteboard type unit that could be within 2' of the screen but was nearly impossible to set up without some kind of keystone issue or distortion -and it just wasn't bright enough.
What are my options for a pro unit that can fill a 10' wide screen from 10' back?  Years ago I did a theater set rear-project using a giant mirror only 5' from the screen -but that was art-video patterns and keystone distortion was unnoticeable and tolerated.  Could a more accurate projection be accomplished with a mirror?  I could have a mount built into the set pieces for the projector as well as a pinned together jig to hold the mirror in the right place every setup, the set crew is very intrigued and wants to work with me on this.  The projector wouldn't ride with the set in the truck as it's subzero sometimes as well as taking a beating (I put it on the bus after every show) but the mirror could be fine as the windows in some of the set flats survived this year with no issues.
The producer wants to explore LED video wall instead, but at the pitch needed I feel the cost would be way out of range.  We would have to rent but it would also have to be custom-it into the set beforehand as well as being ground-supported so there would be considerable extra rental time to figure that out as well as someone additionally hired to wrangle the setup of it every afternoon in a different hall.  We have 11 months to figure it out if necessary so it's not entirely off the table yet.

I'm just a sound guy who's now the TD for this so thanks for putting up with all my video questions!

[brian maddox]

The only thing useful i think i can offer is that i've seen VERY short throw lenses out in the field over the last year used with "real" projectors.  They work by throwing the image "backwards" so the way i've seen them deployed is on the floor with the projector pointed away from the screen.  We're talking projectors on the floor 3 feet behind a screen filling 16' by 9' screens or even larger on legs with full dress kits.  The image quality and brightness is excellent with none of the hot spots on the screen i've seen from short throw lenses of the past.

No idea of cost or exact model numbers, but i can probably inquire as one of my clients owns a couple of these.

[Joris Jans2]

for camera: explore Blackmagic camera's, most of them have (photo)camera lens mounts so you can use almost every lens from specific lens manufacturers (Depending on the lens mount). direct SDI out.

for projectors: i have extensive experience with Panasonic large venue projectors, they have a wide range of lenses. 0.8 fixed zoom and 1.0-1.2 zoom lenses are what you are looking for.
barco & epson do have similar setups. it al depends on budget. (and cost of maintainance)

[Caleb Dueck]

I posted a while back about improving i-mag quality and all your responses were very helpful.
The tour is done and I have adequately recovered  -for this year at least but plans are being made for next year already in hopes to stave-off any last-minute compromises.

Some more questions I have for those of you who know pro video and do it far more often than I do.

Wiring:
It appears that Belden 1694a is the standard for HD-SDI work.  There's a 1694f in the catalog, what's better for tour use? 
I need 200' runs for FOH to rear projectors as well as several 100' runs for cams.  Used 1694a on this last tour but not sure if it's intended for constant wrapping/unwrapping along with the occasional walk-on floor/doorway/aisle tape-down? 
If the "f" (flexible) version is better for this is there a maximum length penalty -I doubt it will ever see more than 1080P/60 use.
Is there a minimum bend radius? -if I use a spool I will need to know minimum drum diameter.
Is there a cable tester out there that I can verify the total run attenuation if I suspect a line was compromised in any way?

Camera:
I use a couple close-up stationary cams on stage (piano keyboard, percussionist, steel guitar etc...) for art shots.  Is there a smaller solution than using retired pro camcorders on large tripods?  I would like something tiny that could mount on round-base mic stands and go straight to SDI instead of having to use a blackmagic convertor from HDMI. 
Years ago I remember trying cctv cams (SD composite) and was never happy with the image quality and lens distortion.  Have newer digital "HD" cams improved at all? Or are there specific products that video pros use for this. 
The JVC and Sony pro camcoders we used had excellent picture, color and low-light capabilities that definitely spoiled me away from most consumer devices I've been exploring since. 
-But they were sometimes difficult to fit in and around the set without being too ugly for the audience or trip hazards for the cast.

primary FOH i-mag cam:
The HD Sony camcorder I used worked well within 50' of the stage. 
However often there simply wasn't an available position and had to run from next to the booth and I couldn't get a close-enough zoom shot for usable i-mag.
I had issues when the projected image is barely larger than real-life -a waist-up shot filling the screen was my minimum goal. 
What does everyone else use for longer distance i-mag (no more than 100') -and what's a decent tripod for this where the slightest twitch bounces the image badly!  I did OK when I was able to set up next to my switcher because I learned the feel of the tripod head (manfrotto) but when I needed a separate camera operator due to placement it was a total crap-shoot.
We of course are on a tight budget so if there's an external lens add-on for the existing cam I can buy/rent for the tour that would be awesome.  Or if anyone reading this is dark during that season and has an affordably rentable setup please PM me)

Projector and Screen:
What is a good short-throw setup? 
We had a decently bright but older presentation projector that needed to be at least 16' back from the screen and often we just didn't have that much space available behind the set.  (in the older auditoriums mostly) 
We also had a backup classroom whiteboard type unit that could be within 2' of the screen but was nearly impossible to set up without some kind of keystone issue or distortion -and it just wasn't bright enough.
What are my options for a pro unit that can fill a 10' wide screen from 10' back?  Years ago I did a theater set rear-project using a giant mirror only 5' from the screen -but that was art-video patterns and keystone distortion was unnoticeable and tolerated.  Could a more accurate projection be accomplished with a mirror?  I could have a mount built into the set pieces for the projector as well as a pinned together jig to hold the mirror in the right place every setup, the set crew is very intrigued and wants to work with me on this.  The projector wouldn't ride with the set in the truck as it's subzero sometimes as well as taking a beating (I put it on the bus after every show) but the mirror could be fine as the windows in some of the set flats survived this year with no issues.
The producer wants to explore LED video wall instead, but at the pitch needed I feel the cost would be way out of range.  We would have to rent but it would also have to be custom-it into the set beforehand as well as being ground-supported so there would be considerable extra rental time to figure that out as well as someone additionally hired to wrangle the setup of it every afternoon in a different hall.  We have 11 months to figure it out if necessary so it's not entirely off the table yet.

I'm just a sound guy who's now the TD for this so thanks for putting up with all my video questions!

Mini cameras - Marshall has some tiny ones that work great, I've spec'ed for exactly this application.

Cameras for iMag - figure $15-20k for camera, double for lens, and a couple $k at least for tripod and fluid head.  Times two or more, a single camera puts the viewers to sleep.  Video gets pricey real fast.  Switcher and router, multi-view monitors, scopes, audio embedders, etc.  Doing video well isn't as simple as picking up a few extra items.  How critical is video?  I don't trust BlackMagic products, have had too many failures. 

Projectors - I'm partial to laser, 3LCD, which means Epson or Sony.  Single chip DLP has poor "rainbow" effect, and incandescent no longer makes long term financial sense.  Don't skimp on brightness unless you want all colors to fade toward gray.

Screens - high contrast, high gain, darker color surface, not matte white.  Just watch viewing angles. 

Video is much too complex to list off a few models and call it good. 

[Jonathan Kok]

Wiring:

1694F is a common production-level HD-SDI cable. It does have WORSE transmission loss than 1694A, though. Whether you'll run into problems depends on what resolution you're running.

At 1080i60:
1694A caps out at 367'
1694F caps out at 260'

At 1080p60:
1694A caps out at 255'
1694F caps out at 175'

HOWEVER:
You can go longer. It's not 'in spec', but it'll work. I wouldn't hesitate to do 200' on 1694F at 1080p60. This is a result of a bit of over-zealous-ness on the part of the original specification, something that was corrected in the newer specs for the UHD resolutions. I forget which manufacturer had a write-up on it, but I think it was Belden?

So, while those are the limits at 1080i and 1080p, the distance limit actually goes UP at higher resolutions; 2160p30 has a distance limit of 340' and 225' respectively. Note that neither of these cables are rated for 2160p60. You'd need 4694F for that, which is limited to 184'.

Distance chart is here.

Bend radius is in their respective spec sheet.

For a tester...nothing cheap and easy, AFAIK.

[Craig Hauber]

Mini cameras - Marshall has some tiny ones that work great, I've spec'ed for exactly this application.

Thanks for the lead, forgot about them since the days when they just did rackmount LCD's

Cameras for iMag - figure $15-20k for camera, double for lens, and a couple $k at least for tripod and fluid head.  Times two or more, a single camera puts the viewers to sleep. 

60% Keynote slides, 20% static logo 20% iMag with 1 movable FOH cam and 2 stationary close-up cams.  Been working really well for last couple of tours -audiences keep paying and begging us to come back so it seems to be working.

Video gets pricey real fast.  Switcher and router, multi-view monitors, scopes, audio embedders, etc.  Doing video well isn't as simple as picking up a few extra items.  How critical is video?  I don't trust BlackMagic products, have had too many failures.

You've been doing installs too much!   this is for a tour that we will be renting the gear for no more than 40-days.
-I know that we don't want to buy the crap because the obsolescence cycle for video (compared to sound) is so fast you get dizzy. (and it will just be in storage for 10 months of the year)
But we do have budget even though the end result is more non-profit and promotional, as well I personally could add to my own inventory.

Projectors - I'm partial to laser, 3LCD, which means Epson or Sony.  Single chip DLP has poor "rainbow" effect, and incandescent no longer makes long term financial sense.  Don't skimp on brightness unless you want all colors to fade toward gray.

Screens - high contrast, high gain, darker color surface, not matte white.  Just watch viewing angles.

-I didn't think there was that much variety and choice with RP surfaces.  Figured you are just stuck with whatever is available from da-lite or draper.

Video is much too complex to list off a few models and call it good.

Certainly there's got to be some standard products from rental houses.
Like what's the "x32" of switchers
-the "Shure '58" of cameras
-and the "Meyer UPA" of projectors

We have gear now, just not perfect and would like to make it easier for a technician to step into that role than it was for me.  I know workarounds and make-do's from my years in "combat" audio situations that applying that mindset to the video equipment made management and audiences happy. (despite all the dead horse floggings)
However as a TD I have to now make it more stable for a less experienced operator -so this is the primary reason for my longwinded posting above.

Thanks again for the info, I think we tour your area (we range from MT through to MN)

[Craig Hauber]

Wiring:

1694F is a common production-level HD-SDI cable. It does have WORSE transmission loss than 1694A, though. Whether you'll run into problems depends on what resolution you're running.

At 1080i60:
1694A caps out at 367'
1694F caps out at 260'

At 1080p60:
1694A caps out at 255'
1694F caps out at 175'

HOWEVER:
You can go longer. It's not 'in spec', but it'll work. I wouldn't hesitate to do 200' on 1694F at 1080p60. This is a result of a bit of over-zealous-ness on the part of the original specification, something that was corrected in the newer specs for the UHD resolutions. I forget which manufacturer had a write-up on it, but I think it was Belden?

So, while those are the limits at 1080i and 1080p, the distance limit actually goes UP at higher resolutions; 2160p30 has a distance limit of 340' and 225' respectively. Note that neither of these cables are rated for 2160p60. You'd need 4694F for that, which is limited to 184'.

Distance chart is here.

Bend radius is in their respective spec sheet.

For a tester...nothing cheap and easy, AFAIK.

Thanks for the info and link
I was OK with the performance of the 1694a we were using, do you think it can handle the rigors of daily deployment and wrapping or is it more of an install cable?
If so I will stick with it as the price seems the best and I doubt I will ever exceed 1080p.  If we go to LED panels my native resolution will probably be far lower than that anyways!

[Jonathan Kok]

Thanks for the info and link
I was OK with the performance of the 1694a we were using, do you think it can handle the rigors of daily deployment and wrapping or is it more of an install cable?
If so I will stick with it as the price seems the best and I doubt I will ever exceed 1080p.  If we go to LED panels my native resolution will probably be far lower than that anyways!

It sucks to wrap. Over/under is an absolute requirement, if not on a reel. It will kink on a tour, as it's solid core. It's more susceptible to breaking for the same reason.

That being said...for one tour, it'd probably be fine, but you'll want to throw it out afterwards (or install it somewhere). 1694F is worth the extra if you're using it for more than that.

[ProSoundWeb Community]