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[Derek James]

I am looking to get 1 or 2 subs to match the JBL PRX425 mains that are in my church.  The 425's are powered by a Crown xti4000, one per side.

I don't know the exact dimensions of the room, but it seats just over 250 people and has 25' ceiling.  We do not play any bass heavy music, just looking for solid kick drum and bass guitar as well as the ability to play contemporary Christian recordings with proper bass response.

I have considered getting 2 Danley th112's and putting one of them below each main, but also thought about getting either a single th115 or th118 and hanging it in the center of the ceiling.

If I do go with a sub on each side of the room it has to fit under the platform, which limits me to 18 inches tall.

I am leaning toward flying a sub in the center of the room due to the cost of buying two th112's, but am open to suggestions.  Would a th115 keep up with two PRX425's even though it is not on the ground?  Danley's website has its SPL calculated based on half space.

I can provide pictures of the room if needed.
I am open to any suggestions!

[Caleb Dueck]

I am looking to get 1 or 2 subs to match the JBL PRX425 mains that are in my church.  The 425's are powered by a Crown xti4000, one per side.

I don't know the exact dimensions of the room, but it seats just over 250 people and has 25' ceiling.  We do not play any bass heavy music, just looking for solid kick drum and bass guitar as well as the ability to play contemporary Christian recordings with proper bass response.

I have considered getting 2 Danley th112's and putting one of them below each main, but also thought about getting either a single th115 or th118 and hanging it in the center of the ceiling.

If I do go with a sub on each side of the room it has to fit under the platform, which limits me to 18 inches tall.

I am leaning toward flying a sub in the center of the room due to the cost of buying two th112's, but am open to suggestions.  Would a th115 keep up with two PRX425's even though it is not on the ground?  Danley's website has its SPL calculated based on half space.

I can provide pictures of the room if needed.
I am open to any suggestions!

Danley is a great option, kudos.

The TH212 is also a great under stage sub, in fact it's one of the very best options if space is limited.

The TH112's don't get very loud.

TH115 are good, but TH118XL doesn't cost that much more and is much better.

Which one(s) are best? 
What is your music style, can you post photos, do you have a concrete stage with sub bunkers or open joists, what is the ceiling, etc?

PRX speakers aren't a very high bar to met in my opinion, so you're on the right track. 

[Taylor Hall]

Many of Danley's products punch well above their footprint pay grade, as it were. I don't think anything you've mentioned would have an issue keeping up with the PRX mains you have now given that you're not asking for club levels of bass. I have seen installations many times larger than yours with only a pair of TH118s handling low end (and keeping up with a pair of 96HOs!). Depending on your location, you may be able to find a dealer/installer that can demo one or all of those options for you and take out the guess work.

Pictures are always welcome, sometimes small things get overlooked that could introduce large issues with a given deployment. It can also give us more ideas about alternate placements that could get around your stage height limit.

[Derek James]

Danley is a great option, kudos.

The TH212 is also a great under stage sub, in fact it's one of the very best options if space is limited.

The TH112's don't get very loud.

TH115 are good, but TH118XL doesn't cost that much more and is much better.

Which one(s) are best? 
What is your music style, can you post photos, do you have a concrete stage with sub bunkers or open joists, what is the ceiling, etc?

PRX speakers aren't a very high bar to met in my opinion, so you're on the right track.

I have attached two pictures.  I plan to remove the center cluster of old Peaveys.

Unfortunately the platform is poured concrete with no bunkers, leaving only the steps on the side below the PRX's as the only possible understage location to place subs.

The ceiling is 25' high in the peak around 20 at the walls.

Music is contemporary Christian, borderline rock on some songs.

I am strongly considering a single sub mounted where the Peaveys are now.

I don't have a set budget, but price is a factor.  I found a used TH118 for $2000, I think that is a good deal, but it is hard to find pricing for Danley online.

[lindsay Dean]

Danley will be a great option. But
 You might want to consider getting some arrayable mains to handle the congregation before thinking about Subs

[Taylor Hall]

I don't have a set budget, but price is a factor.  I found a used TH118 for $2000, I think that is a good deal, but it is hard to find pricing for Danley online.

That sounds reasonable. Danley is all B2B so you won't find any pricing floating around, it's a common and sometimes annoying aspect of our business once you reach a certain level of gear. Mike Pyle and a couple others are Danley dealers on here, try reaching out to them if you're looking for new stuff or discounted demo units.

[Caleb Dueck]

Danley will be a great option. But
 You might want to consider getting some arrayable mains to handle the congregation before thinking about Subs

I second the recommendation to replace all the speakers with a couple that fit the room well.  Something like a couple Martin CDD 15's, flown, with a flown TH118.  That plus a single good DSP amp, like Danley or Powersoft, and you'll have a great system, better sound quality, and more even coverage.

[Mike Caldwell]

Danley will be a great option. But
 You might want to consider getting some arrayable mains to handle the congregation before thinking about Subs

My thoughts as well.
Two speakers not all the high up stuck along the wall are not going to cover that room that well.

Two good speakers in a center flown array would be something to look at.
I have no idea what model Peavey speakers or more importantly how they were flown but if......
- they can be proper flown
- they are in working condtion
- they are properly powered and processed

Two of them would be better than three.

[Derek James]

Thanks for all of the feedback! 

I agree that we could have much better sound quality with different mains in a different locations, but at this point I am not able to replace the mains, and out of the speakers I do have, the PRXs sound many times better than the Peaveys do.

The general consensus from the majority of the leadership of the church is that our mains are good enough, so if I ask for money to replace them it will be shot down, but I think they will agree to adding a sub make our musicians happy.

That being said, since the mains are not going to be replaced anytime soon, should I look at a cheaper sub more inline with the PRX sound quality?

[Mike Caldwell]

Thanks for all of the feedback! 


That being said, since the mains are not going to be replaced anytime soon, should I look at a cheaper sub more inline with the PRX sound quality?

Not if you want to have some thing to build on when there is an upgrade in the future.

As for your comment about getting subs to keep the musicians happy....will getting subs keep the congregation happy?

[Taylor Hall]

Thanks for all of the feedback!

At this point I am not able to replace the mains, and out of the speakers I do have, the PRXs sound many times better than the Peaveys do.

The general consensus from the majority of the leadership of the church is that our mains are good enough, so if I ask for money to replace them it will be shot down, but I think they will agree to adding a sub make our musicians happy.

That being said, since the mains are not going to be replaced anytime soon, should I look at a cheaper sub more inline with the PRX sound quality?

I wouldn't hamstring yourself any more than you already are. If you get a good quality sub now, you can always run it well below its full output until something else breaks, or leadership decides that the mains need updating. When/if that occurs and you have a "weak" sub with newer mains, then the disparity could be very apparent and then you're stuck with either a horribly unbalanced system or having to upgrade everything at the same time.
One thing I would push for is to relocate the existing mains. At the very least get them higher up or even investigate hanging them if they have proper fly points and the building can handle it. Their current location isn't doing your room any favors like others have said.

[Derek James]

Not if you want to have some thing to build on when there is an upgrade in the future.

As for your comment about getting subs to keep the musicians happy....will getting subs keep the congregation happy?

Most members won't care either way, but there are some who would appreciate some low end.  Mostly younger members.

I wouldn't hamstring yourself any more than you already are. If you get a good quality sub now, you can always run it well below its full output until something else breaks, or leadership decides that the mains need updating. When/if that occurs and you have a "weak" sub with newer mains, then the disparity could be very apparent and then you're stuck with either a horribly unbalanced system or having to upgrade everything at the same time.
One thing I would push for is to relocate the existing mains. At the very least get them higher up or even investigate hanging them if they have proper fly points and the building can handle it. Their current location isn't doing your room any favors like others have said.

That is a good point.  I will move forward with purchasing the used TH118 and flying it.

The floor is sloped forward a few degrees, which does help even though the mains are not that high.  They do have fly points so I will look into relocating them as well.

[Scott Holtzman]

Thanks for all of the feedback! 

I agree that we could have much better sound quality with different mains in a different locations, but at this point I am not able to replace the mains, and out of the speakers I do have, the PRXs sound many times better than the Peaveys do.

The general consensus from the majority of the leadership of the church is that our mains are good enough, so if I ask for money to replace them it will be shot down, but I think they will agree to adding a sub make our musicians happy.

That being said, since the mains are not going to be replaced anytime soon, should I look at a cheaper sub more inline with the PRX sound quality?

Is any of this leadership qualified to make design decisions on the audio system?  Audibility of the spoken word is of the utmost importance, basically they have said the kick drum is more important than that.  Sad.

[lindsay Dean]

Hopefully you have read the specs on the danley
A decent quality 3600 watt amplifier is recommended plus you will have to buy a decent processor or  amplifier with built-in processor

[Derek James]

Is any of this leadership qualified to make design decisions on the audio system?  Audibility of the spoken word is of the utmost importance, basically they have said the kick drum is more important than that.  Sad.

While the leadership aren't sound technicians by any means, we haven't had any problem understanding what the speaker is saying.  I agree that the sound quality of the mains could be better, but we are not placing the kick above intelligibility.

[Derek James]

Hopefully you have read the specs on the danley
A decent quality 3600 watt amplifier is recommended plus you will have to buy a decent processor or  amplifier with built-in processor

Yes, I am looking at a used I-Tech4000.  Maybe not as good as powersoft, but I have seen a few around or even under $1000.

[Caleb Dueck]

Yes, I am looking at a used I-Tech4000.  Maybe not as good as powersoft, but I have seen a few around or even under $1000.

You'll have to weigh that price against buying a new Danley 10k4 (for example), which has processing and power for not only the current speakers/sub but also future speakers and potential second sub.  I've worked with many churches that 'didn't need a subwoofer' - until they heard what they had been lacking.  Same with speakers - as long as the person on the platform is louder when they talk through a mic, the system is 'fine'.  Until they hear a quality speaker and A/B the two.  I wouldn't discount future upgrades. 

Side story - had a smaller church (200-ish) with a similar cluster.  They asked if they could use a demo system live for a Sunday since 'the old system is fine'.  They were only blocks from my house and the setup was simple, so we did, and I mixed that service for them.  At the end of the service, the pastor mentioned the demo system (no one seemed to have noticed it was in use the whole time), so I went back and forth a couple times between the two systems.  Most people shook their heads and laughed at how drastic the difference was, and the next day they had a signed contract waiting for us. 

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