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Author Topic: 2 fiber snakes on one reel?  (Read 1165 times)

Andrew Broughton

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2 fiber snakes on one reel?
« on: December 29, 2019, 12:49:17 pm »

anyone ever seen this or done this?
For Digico, there's 2 Opticalcons needed. On Yamaha, there Main and Redundant cables.
I've only ever seen separate reels for the 2 fiber lines. Anyone ever loomed them together onto one reel for speedier setup/strike? Good idea? Bad idea?
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Pete Erskine

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Re: 2 fiber snakes on one reel?
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2019, 01:17:08 pm »

anyone ever seen this or done this?
For Digico, there's 2 Opticalcons needed. On Yamaha, there Main and Redundant cables.
I've only ever seen separate reels for the 2 fiber lines. Anyone ever loomed them together onto one reel for speedier setup/strike? Good idea? Bad idea?

First, Occasionally snakes need to be taken off the reel to go through a hole. 
Second, striking the two fibers often is done separately and will be hard to get back on the reel together.
Third, in some fiber uses the 2 fibers are main and backup and properly should be run in divergent paths.
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Justice C. Bigler

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Re: 2 fiber snakes on one reel?
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2019, 02:26:55 pm »

I'd like to hear more about this.

Our set up uses two reels for our SD10. As it is, they fit into my FOH snake boxes better as separate reels. But they follow the same path and go to the same location, so it might be better/easier to use them on the same reel.

The only thing I can think would present a concern is that the two Optocore connectors would be a bit more unwieldy with both of them together on the same reel.
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Erik Jerde

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Re: 2 fiber snakes on one reel?
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2019, 02:54:44 pm »

anyone ever seen this or done this?
For Digico, there's 2 Opticalcons needed. On Yamaha, there Main and Redundant cables.
I've only ever seen separate reels for the 2 fiber lines. Anyone ever loomed them together onto one reel for speedier setup/strike? Good idea? Bad idea?

Most of my fiber work in temporary setups has been video.  I've frequently used 4 fiber cables that run from the video router to the projector stacks.  Each fiber feeds 1 PJ.  I haven't personally done a 4 PJ stack so we've got at least one spare at each location.  Works great and since it's one cable it's one reel.  You could do this same thing depending on your fiber termination.  You might need a fanout at each end but those are easy.

I wouldn't put two cables loomed up on the same spool, I find they never really wind up as nicely as you think they might.  Identical cables will probably work better than a mix of analog snake, dmx, network, etc though.
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Scott Helmke

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Re: 2 fiber snakes on one reel?
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2019, 04:40:54 pm »

We use four core single mode fiber with ST connectors, so main and redundant lines are in the same physical cable. Yeah, not perfect, we could always run two separate cables if things were that critical.  But one cable means one reel.
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Andrew Broughton

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Re: 2 fiber snakes on one reel?
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2019, 05:19:38 pm »

First, Occasionally snakes need to be taken off the reel to go through a hole. 
Second, striking the two fibers often is done separately and will be hard to get back on the reel together.
Third, in some fiber uses the 2 fibers are main and backup and properly should be run in divergent paths.
Not a concern in my case.

I have been using Quad core for a while and running a single fiber line (without issue), but with the new Yamaha switches using Dual, it'll be 2 fiber runs instead of one. I understand all the risks, more interested in hearing whether or not anyone has loomed a couple of fibers together successfully on a reel and used it that way on tour?
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-Andy

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Mac Kerr

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Re: 2 fiber snakes on one reel?
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2019, 10:13:55 pm »

Not a concern in my case.

I have been using Quad core for a while and running a single fiber line (without issue), but with the new Yamaha switches using Dual, it'll be 2 fiber runs instead of one. I understand all the risks, more interested in hearing whether or not anyone has loomed a couple of fibers together successfully on a reel and used it that way on tour?

Add a panel mount OpticalCon Quad to the rack and use 2 LC jumper pairs to connect the Quad to 2 Duals in the switches and stick with a single quad run.

Mac
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brian maddox

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Re: 2 fiber snakes on one reel?
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2019, 11:47:52 pm »

Add a panel mount OpticalCon Quad to the rack and use 2 LC jumper pairs to connect the Quad to 2 Duals in the switches and stick with a single quad run.

Mac

Yup, thatís how Iíve seen it done.
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Daniel Levi

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Re: 2 fiber snakes on one reel?
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2019, 02:38:53 am »

and Sommer do opticalcon quad reels, as you might expect not cheap.
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Mark Dunne

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Re: 2 fiber snakes on one reel?
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2019, 10:47:05 am »

Hi Andrew

I had exactly what you are describing on hire earlier this year from Capital Sound (now SSE/Solotech).

They have a 150m HMA pair on a drum - the drum is fixed to a wheel base with a lid.

Was particularly useful for the job I did as it was a small venue - we only needed a ~30m run of fibre, and there would've been no room for a trunk with 120m of excess cable (mains, analogue, and fibre).

M
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Craig Hauber

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Re: 2 fiber snakes on one reel?
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2019, 12:25:44 pm »

anyone ever seen this or done this?
For Digico, there's 2 Opticalcons needed. On Yamaha, there Main and Redundant cables.
I've only ever seen separate reels for the 2 fiber lines. Anyone ever loomed them together onto one reel for speedier setup/strike? Good idea? Bad idea?
I've done 1 tactical cat-5, 1 SDI 1694a and one XLR loomed together on a reel for 250'.  No issues with the different stiffness of the 3 cables.  I had a big reel though and didn't have to tight-pack the windings to get it all to fit.  (a retired analog snake reel)
I found the 3 lines together helped prevent the pigtail twists and hard radius bends that can happen easier with single coax or ethernet lines.  I also loomed them in a flat side-by-side arrangement so taping down over aisles was easy and non-obtrusive (especially when additionally covered by a taped-down mat) -almost too unobtrusive as you had to keep an eye on overzealous venue volunteers from easily rolling chair and table carts over them during strike!
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Andrew Broughton

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Re: 2 fiber snakes on one reel?
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2019, 12:31:03 pm »

Great stuff. Thanks, everyone!
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-Andy

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Riley Casey

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Re: 2 fiber snakes on one reel?
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2019, 12:43:27 pm »

We have both quad and single runs of fiber and the RIO & console UPS racks are set up with both types of connectors to separate SPF ports on the switches.  The one time I've had a fiber fail it was cut clean thru by a hotel airwall so my experience has me using the quad cable last.

Not a concern in my case.

I have been using Quad core for a while and running a single fiber line (without issue), but with the new Yamaha switches using Dual, it'll be 2 fiber runs instead of one. I understand all the risks, more interested in hearing whether or not anyone has loomed a couple of fibers together successfully on a reel and used it that way on tour?

brian maddox

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Re: 2 fiber snakes on one reel?
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2019, 05:00:15 pm »

We have both quad and single runs of fiber and the RIO & console UPS racks are set up with both types of connectors to separate SPF ports on the switches.  The one time I've had a fiber fail it was cut clean thru by a hotel airwall so my experience has me using the quad cable last.

Goes back to that whole "redundancy means separate cable paths too" thing.  Of course, reality dictates that we rarely have such a luxury.

Your point is still well made of course...
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: 2 fiber snakes on one reel?
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2019, 08:14:44 pm »

Goes back to that whole "redundancy means separate cable paths too" thing.  Of course, reality dictates that we rarely have such a luxury.

Your point is still well made of course...

Yes Virginia, there are two paths, one against the dasher on each side of the arena.  For the really big $$$$ corporates, the client will punch through sheet rock and pay for the restoration before they will risk a preventable injury to a guest or company officer if path redundancy is required.  For the rest of us it's "that path was safe/good enough for last week's event".  Right before a queen mary loaded with 80 covered plates and serviceware rolls across it...

On the last Tom Petty tour, Scovi had 2 separated digital audio paths and an analog drive for back up.  If anyone from Sound Image wants to comment on the general nature of dual paths and auto/manual fall over, feel free to post (I know you're reading... ;) )
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brian maddox

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Re: 2 fiber snakes on one reel?
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2019, 02:39:37 pm »

Yes Virginia, there are two paths, one against the dasher on each side of the arena.  For the really big $$$$ corporates, the client will punch through sheet rock and pay for the restoration before they will risk a preventable injury to a guest or company officer if path redundancy is required.  For the rest of us it's "that path was safe/good enough for last week's event".  Right before a queen mary loaded with 80 covered plates and serviceware rolls across it...

On the last Tom Petty tour, Scovi had 2 separated digital audio paths and an analog drive for back up.  If anyone from Sound Image wants to comment on the general nature of dual paths and auto/manual fall over, feel free to post (I know you're reading... ;) )

don't want to swerve, but...  The new XTA MX36 is a REALLY nice piece of kit.  I got the full walk through at AES and i was suitably impressed.

/endswerve
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Re: 2 fiber snakes on one reel?
¬ę Reply #15 on: December 31, 2019, 02:39:37 pm ¬Ľ


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