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Author Topic: Church in need of speaker help please  (Read 583 times)

Scott Holtzman

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Re: Church in need of speaker help please
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2019, 03:05:43 am »

I agree.  However, I, know how to use the soundboard having used an AH QU-32 at my last church, but it was a very different venue seating 850 in more of a wedge shape.

The current sound volunteer, however, is not using the board/mix/amps properly.  I know it, and want to introduce changes, but sadly people get their feelings hurt more often and more quickly in a church setting than anywhere else.  So, I'm taking baby steps and have been slowly talking about revamping our sound for a year now getting him ok with it.

I mentioned arrays because we had 2 at my previous church with 2 fills.  It was professionally installed and calibrated, which, we do not have the option of doing here. I brought up the array idea because of the TOA array type speakers I saw with its variable angle, able to easily add a sub and still hang it centrally but wanted some additional feedback.  And yes there was a topic or two but they focused on a large venue with a desire to push 104db, not really fitting for us.

We are between Columbia and Florence SC in a small town.  No one expects or wants to be blown out of the water, but everyone knows that it can be better than what we have.

Again, thanks in advance.

I have worked in many churches, both as a hired hand and a volunteer.  I do appreciate the politics

I don't understand you comment that the volunteer won't accept training.  You know the board.  What is the issue?  This person sits through service with their hand on the power amp?  Sorry to dwell on this it just strikes me as bizarre.

You got lots of great advice.  Please keep safety on mind.  If you go with the center cluster it will probably cost as much to rig it as the apeakers (or more).  Do not under any circumstances use a maintenance person or volunteer labor for this critical task.
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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Todd Latham

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Re: Church in need of speaker help please
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2019, 09:52:29 am »

All good points.

@Todd - If you do reconfigure, you could easily mix the inputs you currently have, plus more in the future, with one of the surface-less rack-mount mixers.  My favorite is the Soundcraft Ui24R, but the Behringer X32 Rack and XR18 work well for many.  That and a wireless tablet is all the Sound Area/Equipment you'd need.  In fact, the rack itself could be "back stage", so the current Sound Area could be returned to the Congregation.

I also agree with Scott's flown center cluster recommendation.  A couple of 2 or 3-way units with 60 degree horns/wave guides, hung upside down (horn down) should cover your space without blasting the front pews or the comb filtering issues that speakers in each corner can cause.

Dave


Thanks for the idea, but those mixers arent quite our speed yet!  Up until last year they still had a tape deck tied into the system.  To give you an idea of the congregations tech savvy, only about 1/4 of the church has smart phones, another 1/2 have flip phones and the rest dont see a need for them.....so trying to introduce a tablet based mixing system will be a hard sell.  Also, we use cd tracks for soloists and choir specials so there would still need to be some sort of sound area, cd changer.
As for the speakers, any specific recommendations?
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: Church in need of speaker help please
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2019, 09:52:48 am »

All good points.

@Todd - If you do reconfigure, you could easily mix the inputs you currently have, plus more in the future, with one of the surface-less rack-mount mixers.  My favorite is the Soundcraft Ui24R, but the Behringer X32 Rack and XR18 work well for many.  That and a wireless tablet is all the Sound Area/Equipment you'd need.  In fact, the rack itself could be "back stage", so the current Sound Area could be returned to the Congregation.

I also agree with Scott's flown center cluster recommendation.  A couple of 2 or 3-way units with 60 degree horns/wave guides, hung upside down (horn down) should cover your space without blasting the front pews or the comb filtering issues that speakers in each corner can cause.

Dave

Keep in mind the QU24 could be located anywhere and operated remotely.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2019, 12:25:49 pm by Mike Caldwell »
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Tracy Garner

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Re: Church in need of speaker help please
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2019, 11:26:16 am »

All of the suggestions here make sense. To add to it, consider the worship style today versus down the road. If you are more traditional, your sound system can be more conservative in terms of output and the cluster or single speaker is enough. If you plan to move toward a more contemporary, consider replacing the cluster plus maybe adding bass cabinets to augment.

With your current digital mixer, drum mics, more praise team mics, etc. make it the proper tool long-term. I suggest offering the volunteer and a backup or two some training on the current c console. If you go with the integrator, you can likely get the training/consultation bundled. When our church upgraded, the integrator sent an operator who helped with bible study, praise & worship service, and Sunday service to help everyone get acclimated and also system fine-tune when the sanctuary was full of people.


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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: Church in need of speaker help please
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2019, 01:01:54 pm »



Thanks for the idea, but those mixers arent quite our speed yet!  Up until last year they still had a tape deck tied into the system.  To give you an idea of the congregations tech savvy, only about 1/4 of the church has smart phones, another 1/2 have flip phones and the rest dont see a need for them.....so trying to introduce a tablet based mixing system will be a hard sell.  Also, we use cd tracks for soloists and choir specials so there would still need to be some sort of sound area, cd changer.
As for the speakers, any specific recommendations?

Our church is a little larger-I taught our volunteer "sound guy"who had only ever run analog how to run the service on a QU-32 for a complete Sunday-including several 4-5 person vocal ensembles, and a choir in under an hour-and had people say you couldn't tell it was a new mixer.  Properly setup for a basic service, all they really need to do is move faders up and down as needed-and maybe even just mute/unmute as needed.  Then they can learn more advanced techniques at their own pace. 

Once setup, I don't see a QU as much different than an analog board-especially if all you are currently doing is running from an amp.  In fact, one huge plus of the digital board is that you can program a scene and have them recall it every service and always have the same starting point.  If they don't understand the system and somebody messes with all those fun knobs on an analog board then they're in a big mess!
« Last Edit: December 07, 2019, 10:47:54 am by Stephen Swaffer »
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: Church in need of speaker help please
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2019, 08:49:32 am »


Once setup, I don't see a QU as much different than an analog board-especially if all you are currently doing is running from an amp.  In fact, one huge plus of the digital board is that you can program a scene and have them recall it every service and always have the same starting point.  If they don't understand the system and somebody messes with all those fun knobs on an analog board then their in a big mess!

And the QU like many others can be set with operator password protected operation levels that only allow scene recalls and fader changes.

As for training, either on digital or analog everyday fader up down mic on off operation can be taught fairly quick but teaching how two adapt to last minute problems, trouble shooting, adding extra instruments, vocals, needed monitors ect. will not happen in a one day training session for the person who has never done anything like that before.

Stephen Swaffer

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Re: Church in need of speaker help please
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2019, 11:02:27 am »

I agree.  From how I am picturing the situation from the OP, my feeling is that mixer they have (QU-24) running a couple of properly spec'd, placed and installed powered speakers using preset scenes recalled as I described would offer the fewest "opportunities" for troubleshooting.  Certainly much less than an analog mixer with a rack of processing and amps.

Normally, I don't like the idea of powered speakers in an install-but that is essentially the system that is our core system.    Even though the the QU-24 may be overkill, it has advantages over a "simpler" analog system in a situation like this.  Barring a catastrophic failure, you can virtually guarantee that the operator will always face the same situation when he powers up on Sunday morning.
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Steve Swaffer

Nathan Riddle

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Re: Church in need of speaker help please
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2019, 01:29:09 pm »

Love the suggestions.

Some more.

Absolutely keep the QU24, it is a very volunteer friendly board. You could downsize to the qu16 with so few inputs though.
Put the QU24 in basic mode for this volunteer.
Label everything.
Put a plate on the amp that blocks the gain knobs.
Hire someone to train you and your team, or purchase an online course.
Do not fly any new speakers without a proper understanding of rigging and preferably a professional installer/rigger and obtain a Structural engineer signoff.

I'm surprised you don't have feedback with that location of the column array speaker. It probably has 100-140deg vertical coverage (in that orientation) and ~20ish horizontal (in that orientation). It's firing right into the podium mic.


Sound System Options
1) Repair the speaker
2) Replace the speaker
3) Design and install a new speaker system

I'm fond of the Martin CDD series for its differential dispersion characteristics. They might be a bit older design compared to the latest Yamaha DZR series, but the coverage is very good.
If you need uber-cheap the QSC E series is very good for the money I've heard/read.

Find a local integrator/dealer for pricing they can generally help you out.
If you can't, Mike Pyle or some others on this website are good guys/gals. You can post in the Marketplace.
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Re: Church in need of speaker help please
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2019, 01:29:09 pm »


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