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[Tim Steer]

I can see that could be a problem. Seems like a bit of an oversight on their part.

Sounds like it would be pretty useless for a corporate show then. I can't think of any situation where I'd not want the AMM to be after-fader, and if I can't PFL the mics of the speakers waiting in the green room without bypassing the AMM on each of their channels then I'm not interested. Fortunately every corporate company round my way stocks QLs so I doubt I'll ever have to meet this desk on a show.

[Andrew Broughton]

The AMM in the dLive has individual selection for PAFL and Metering.


From the manual:

AMM Input metering-point select – Select the metering point for Inputs assigned to the AMM:

• Post Preamp
• Post Gate/PEQ
• Post Compressor (Pre AMM) Post Delay (Post AMM)

AMM Input to PAFL source select – Select the PAFL source point for Inputs assigned to the AMM:

• Post Preamp
• Post Ins A Ret
• Post PEQ (Pre AMM) Post Delay (Post AMM)

The dLive AMM seems VERY feature rich. Have a look at this video:

https://youtu.be/Qfixqpw_tWc?t=1516

[Keith Broughton]

Sounds like it would be pretty useless for a corporate show then. I can't think of any situation where I'd not want the AMM to be after-fader, and if I can't PFL the mics of the speakers waiting in the green room without bypassing the AMM on each of their channels then I'm not interested. Fortunately every corporate company round my way stocks QLs so I doubt I'll ever have to meet this desk on a show.

I imagine (will test theory soon) that if you mute the channel and bring up the fader, the PFL would work.
It is better in post fader mode, but not unworkable in pre fader mode. You just have to mute the channel to remove it fro the AMM function.
I like the fact that the Yammy consoles allow for 3 choices of insert locations in each channel.

[Kevin Maxwell]

This is why I have asked for someone to run the test I posted in this thread.

I am very familiar with Automixers, I was working with a local sound company recently. We installed an SQ6 (with its version of an Automixer the AMM) in a room where the client has board meetings. There will be 20 wireless table top gooseneck mics and 2 Hand Held wireless mics. The already installed ceiling speaker system that we had to tie into isn’t the greatest but it is usable and should be fine with everything on the AMM. I got the system sounding pretty good with one of the table top mics. In my experience since I have done this many times before, I figured I could just add the other table top mics, but before I got past 4 of them up I was having feedback issues. I have been able to do a similar thing with 30 wireless bodypacks that with the Automixer working on another system. I could get one working and add all of the others with no problems, because the output was always equal to one mic. I know this (SQ Mixer AMM) is an attempt at a Dan Dugan style of automixer but it isn’t working (sounding) like one. I did get it all working with all of the mics turned up but not with the kind of gain I feel I should have. And I also tried turning it off and it is functioning (with the default priority levels) just not how Automixers have in my experience.

I was a panelist with Dan Dugan at an AES conference in NYC in 2008 on “Auto Mixing for live sound”. My specialty is the Shure SCM810 mixer, (with a bunch of them) linked together for panel discussions and also for the dialog parts in Musicals. And I only say that now so that people will know I probably didn’t do something simple wrong.

[Keith Broughton]

This is why I have asked for someone to run the test I posted in this thread.

I am very familiar with Automixers, I was working with a local sound company recently. We installed an SQ6 (with its version of an Automixer the AMM) in a room where the client has board meetings. There will be 20 wireless table top gooseneck mics and 2 Hand Held wireless mics. The already installed ceiling speaker system that we had to tie into isn’t the greatest but it is usable and should be fine with everything on the AMM. I got the system sounding pretty good with one of the table top mics. In my experience since I have done this many times before, I figured I could just add the other table top mics, but before I got past 4 of them up I was having feedback issues. I have been able to do a similar thing with 30 wireless bodypacks that with the Automixer working on another system. I could get one working and add all of the others with no problems, because the output was always equal to one mic. I know this (SQ Mixer AMM) is an attempt at a Dan Dugan style of automixer but it isn’t working (sounding) like one. I did get it all working with all of the mics turned up but not with the kind of gain I feel I should have. And I also tried turning it off and it is functioning (with the default priority levels) just not how Automixers have in my experience.

I was a panelist with Dan Dugan at an AES conference in NYC in 2008 on “Auto Mixing for live sound”. My specialty is the Shure SCM810 mixer, (with a bunch of them) linked together for panel discussions and also for the dialog parts in Musicals. And I only say that now so that people will know I probably didn’t do something simple wrong.

Am I reading this right that you have a conference mic setup in a room with ceiling speakers? Are the speakers there to help people at the table hear other people speaking?
Trying to get enough GBF for ceiling speakers over the conference table is a whole world of pain! You might need to have some king of gating included in the processing of individual mics.

I did, basically, run your test on a gig recently where there were loudspeakers for the audience, not for the participants and the auto mix worked well.

[Kevin Maxwell]

Am I reading this right that you have a conference mic setup in a room with ceiling speakers? Are the speakers there to help people at the table hear other people speaking?
Trying to get enough GBF for ceiling speakers over the conference table is a whole world of pain! You might need to have some king of gating included in the processing of individual mics.

I did, basically, run your test on a gig recently where there were loudspeakers for the audience, not for the participants and the auto mix worked well.

The ceiling speakers where not the problem they were for the rest of the room not the stage area. It was that the AMM in the SQ6 did not always equal the output of 1 mic when in use. I even talked to Dan Dugan about this and he agree with me that it wasn't working correctly. This was back when the SQ6 was on just the second firmware update so I don't know if they made any changes after that. As I said I got the AMM to work but not with the amount of gain I should have been able to get if the AMM system was working as it should.

This was the typical install, the clients were happy, it was a huge improvement to what they had been using so I have never been back there and I don't know if the sound company ever went back for any reason. I didn't point out to them the issue because I got it to work to their satisfaction but just not to my satisfaction because I know how the Dugan algorithm can work and this wasn't working that way.   

[Keith Broughton]

I even talked to Dan Dugan about this and he agree with me that it wasn't working correctly. This was back when the SQ6 was on just the second firmware update so I don't know if they made any changes after that. As I said I got the AMM to work but not with the amount of gain I should have been able to get if the AMM system was working as it should.

It does sound like something wasn't working correctly. I have not seen that issue on a Qu16.

[ProSoundWeb Community]