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[Radoslaw Andruszkiewicz]

I have in issue when playing small stages at places with funky systems and equally knowledgeable 'soundmen'. I'm a bass player, thus I'm usually relegated to the back standing next to the drummer, with my amp being literally behind my legs. Without any monitor, I hear mostly drums, my own bass amp barely, and some wash of other instruments from the monitors in the front. The places I play in usually have monitors only on the front of the stage, with usually nothing for those of us in the back. I thought it was a lack of equipment, so recently when I suggested I could provide my own monitor  I got an answer 'all auxes are used' - the venue mixer has 6 auxes and there are 3 monitors, and the sound guy wouldn't answer as to what he uses these other three for when I asked, as an example (been to the venue before as a listener, the 'soundman' in question is usually busy selling beer, or consuming it....) So I've been wondering what the solution is I can provide myself in such instances, and I've been looking into IEM's, but it seems that the goal with them is to completely isolate from the surrounding then run all the sound through mics. However we're a small act, we usually have no time for setting up and down any complicated systems, especially drum mics, or funds for anything that advanced.

So my main question here is, are there any IEM's with low isolation from the surroundings? If such a product exists, I could then hear drums without miking, then just run DI's of guitar, bass and keys, and a splitter on the vocal mic into a small personal mixer only I can control and hear through in ears, so the 'soundman' gets to have his control he so needs, and I and / or the drummer can hear the rest of the band clearly with a fairly simple system.

Or maybe you have other solutions for such occasions? If I showed up with a regular wedge or two regardless, and run as above independently from FOH, would I bother the sound out front too much?

[Chris Hindle]

Set up 1 or 2 "Ambience" mics, and keep them only in your personal mixer.
Once you have "your thing" dialed in, it is very repeatable with little effort.
You'll actually save time.
Chris.

[Taylor Hall]

What Chris said. Ambient mics are pretty widely used and can be pretty much anything since it's not hitting the main feed.

There are also companies that make IEMs with built in ambient mics, Westone comes immediately to mind. There are also a few wireless IEM receivers that have a built-in ambient mic or an aux in for you to use your own.

Sacrificing isolation to hear what's happening around you will only muddy what's being sent through your IEMs. The less you hear from the outside when they're in your ears, the better.

[Mark Scrivener]

actually there are IEMs that don't rely on built in mics to provide you some ambient sound. Here is an example - https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AmPro10--westone-am-pro-10-ambient-earphones-clear

Here is what I use - https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EAS20--westone-eas20-elite-ambient-series-custom-fit-earphones
They have replaceable filters that allow you to decide how much of the room you want to hear. And yes, there is a block out filter if you want maximum isolation.

[Taylor Hall]

Oh neat, they finally got the passive ones to market. Granted it was a couple years ago that I first came across their mic'd versions and those were just rumblings at the time.

[Jason Glass]

I have in issue when playing small stages at places with funky systems and equally knowledgeable 'soundmen'. I'm a bass player, thus I'm usually relegated to the back standing next to the drummer, with my amp being literally behind my legs. Without any monitor, I hear mostly drums, my own bass amp barely, and some wash of other instruments from the monitors in the front.

What about using a wedge speaker with a bass amp head?

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/wedge-shaped-bass-cab-or-amp-stand.1295527/

[Les Kanekuni]

I have in issue when playing small stages at places with funky systems and equally knowledgeable 'soundmen'. I'm a bass player, thus I'm usually relegated to the back standing next to the drummer, with my amp being literally behind my legs. Without any monitor, I hear mostly drums, my own bass amp barely, and some wash of other instruments from the monitors in the front. The places I play in usually have monitors only on the front of the stage, with usually nothing for those of us in the back. I thought it was a lack of equipment, so recently when I suggested I could provide my own monitor  I got an answer 'all auxes are used' - the venue mixer has 6 auxes and there are 3 monitors, and the sound guy wouldn't answer as to what he uses these other three for when I asked, as an example (been to the venue before as a listener, the 'soundman' in question is usually busy selling beer, or consuming it....) So I've been wondering what the solution is I can provide myself in such instances, and I've been looking into IEM's, but it seems that the goal with them is to completely isolate from the surrounding then run all the sound through mics. However we're a small act, we usually have no time for setting up and down any complicated systems, especially drum mics, or funds for anything that advanced.

So my main question here is, are there any IEM's with low isolation from the surroundings? If such a product exists, I could then hear drums without miking, then just run DI's of guitar, bass and keys, and a splitter on the vocal mic into a small personal mixer only I can control and hear through in ears, so the 'soundman' gets to have his control he so needs, and I and / or the drummer can hear the rest of the band clearly with a fairly simple system.

Or maybe you have other solutions for such occasions? If I showed up with a regular wedge or two regardless, and run as above independently from FOH, would I bother the sound out front too much?

Before dropping a lot of money on expensive professional IEMs that isolate so well that ambient sound injection is needed, why not try consumer earbuds which leak sound anyway?  As you say, take a split and do your own mix.

[Jamin Lynch]

One advantage of using ambient mics for IEM's users is that each person can adjust the amount ambient sound they want. A little, a lot or none.

[Radoslaw Andruszkiewicz]

What about using a wedge speaker with a bass amp head?

Usually the bass cab ends up right behind my calves. Even if I put it up higher on a crate or wedged it, I'd have it blowing at my thighs or buttocks. I'd have to have the speaker blowing directly upwards, but then not much sound would go out front - my bass amp has to provide sound for the audience usually, since 'PA' on a typical small bar stage is two speakers that can't handle anything more than vocals. But I'll give it a shot, because I have a 2x10, it's easy it to lean it against a wall.

Before dropping a lot of money on expensive professional IEMs that isolate so well that ambient sound injection is needed, why not try consumer earbuds which leak sound anyway?  As you say, take a split and do your own mix.

I use custom molded ear plugs with -15db reduction, and I don't dare to gig without any sound protection. I'd ruin my hearing within one gig using your method, no protection plus cheap ear buds screaming over the rest......

actually there are IEMs that don't rely on built in mics to provide you some ambient sound. Here is an example - https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/AmPro10--westone-am-pro-10-ambient-earphones-clear

Do you have experience with those, especially the AM10 model? Even though I play bass, I rely mostly on high frequency content to hear notes, so I'm not sure I'd need any advanced multi driver ones, plus the AM10's are half the price of the two-driver model.

Set up 1 or 2 "Ambience" mics, and keep them only in your personal mixer.

How would I set up the ambient mics, in conjunction with DI's? Overheads for the drums, or somehow else? Guitar and vocals run through digital multieffects that have extra outputs, keys can go dual mono so I get one output there too, only drums would require any miking in my case.

[Taylor Hall]

How would I set up the ambient mics, in conjunction with DI's? Overheads for the drums, or somehow else? Guitar and vocals run through digital multieffects that have extra outputs, keys can go dual mono so I get one output there too, only drums would require any miking in my case.

Depends on what you want in your "ambience". A single overhead at the drum set would probably be more than enough to get what you need from there without the kick drowning everything out. I proabbly wouldn't put it totally over head, though, unless al you want to hear is cymbals Play around with it, every stage behaves differently so you'll probably have a bit of fine tuning to do in order to find that sweet spot. Like always, the loudest thing at the mic wins, so keep that in mind when placing it.

[Mark Scrivener]

Do you have experience with those, especially the AM10 model? Even though I play bass, I rely mostly on high frequency content to hear notes, so I'm not sure I'd need any advanced multi driver ones, plus the AM10's are half the price of the two-driver model.

I have some band mates who use the AM Pros, though they are 20's, not 10's. I use dual driver custom fit as my ears have never worked well with universal fit plugs. My band mates love their AM Pros. Come to think of it I also have a drummer friend who uses AM Pros and I'm pretty sure they are the 10's. I've never heard any of these people say anything negative about their IEMs.

Low frequency response out of IEMs requires a tight seal. Even the slightest compromise of that seal will cause a dramatic loss in low end. When the seal isn't solid I can lose low end by simply moving my jaw or tilting my head. But if you are mainly relying on higher frequency content then this shouldn't be an issue. Custom fits (when done correctly) will also give you a rock solid seal.

[Patrick Cognitore]

I'm a bass player

A partial solution to hearing/feeling your bass is using something like the Backbeat. It's a tactile transducer that clips to your strap or belt and rumbles

https://www.getbackbeat.com/

You can plug the bass directly in and then route to an amplifier and/or DI. Or you can run a monitor mix to the unit (such as from a IEM receive) and run IEM earbuds right out of it. I've done it both ways and if prefer running the entire monitor mix through it as you get a very musical mix with the thump from the kick, toms, keys as well as the bass guitar. My IEM's are budget Shure 215s with custom molds, nothing fancy, but still feel like I get an almost studio quality mix compared to an onstage amp and a monitor wedge. Not a whole lot of ambient input with totally sealed plugs, but the bass response is higher priority for me.

If run this way a dedicated monitor mix is required so that may not suit most of your situations unless your band put together a dedicated monitor mixer/rig and just handed the house engineer a split of your channels.

On the old units the rumble only operated up until about 200hz, but the newer stock does run higher (not sure how much). Either way, a source that provide the mids and highs is definitely necessary. The unit's outputs (both the 1/4" and 1/8") are full range so can be send to an amp, DI, IEMs or a powered monitor.

Last week I did a fly in date on a borrowed bass and 2x10" combo. I traveled with my strap and backbeat and a couple of cables. On the gig there a short line check only and I had no time to get bass signal sent to my on stage monitor (a shame since it was a nice RCF NX series wedge). So I dialed down the bass EQ on the combo to get some clarity and still had the thump with the BB on the strap. It would have been pretty unpleasant night without it.

Disclamer - I'm not affiliated with the company, just an enthusiastic user.

Stock photo from the website:

[Steve Garris]

How would I set up the ambient mics, in conjunction with DI's? Overheads for the drums, or somehow else? Guitar and vocals run through digital multieffects that have extra outputs, keys can go dual mono so I get one output there too, only drums would require any miking in my case.

When I do this it's a single mic on a short stand, center stage pointing to the audience. Often it's set on a low stand at the stage lip. The mic is picking up the room. Musicians using IEM's love it.

[Radoslaw Andruszkiewicz]

I have some band mates who use the AM Pros, though they are 20's, not 10's. I use dual driver custom fit as my ears have never worked well with universal fit plugs. My band mates love their AM Pros. Come to think of it I also have a drummer friend who uses AM Pros and I'm pretty sure they are the 10's. I've never heard any of these people say anything negative about their IEMs.

Thank you, that feedback is very helpful and promising too since it comes from a drummer.

[John A Chiara]

Thank you, that feedback is very helpful and promising too since it comes from a drummer.

Here’s the problem I most often observe. People CHANGE the variables involved with their IEM systems. I would get ambient mics and use the exact setup EVERY TIME.

[Erik Jerde]

Since it hasn’t already been said, the out of auxes thing may be legit.  Small analog desks usually don’t have the ability to run all auxes pre-fade which is what you need your monitor sends to be.  Still doesn’t excuse the surly soundguy but he may be right.

[ProSoundWeb Community]