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Author Topic: 8ch rig for 18 cities in USA and 8 in Europe in 2020  (Read 667 times)

Loren Miller

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8ch rig for 18 cities in USA and 8 in Europe in 2020
« on: November 15, 2019, 05:06:04 pm »

This is still in its infancy but I might be putting together an 8ch rig for major cities in the USA and a handful of European cities (UK, Spain, Germany, France, Portugal and Italy)

The main reason to put our own rig together was the huge difference in quality from city to city and vendor to vendor. The countryman headsets that I put in the request were typical countryman, broken. Then came the scramble. Eventually started to request DPA but costs went through the roof. So I am toying around with putting together a wireless rack and just add it to the freight truck between shows.

I assume to do this tour with 1 rig I need as much spectrum as I can get, but Europe adds some variable I am hoping you guys can shed some light on. I've done some preliminary research and it seems that UHF is good for Europe (I know crazy license in UK required).

Question: Can ULXD swing this in 1 freq or am I gonna have to mortgage the farm and get axient?

Gig: all taking head corporate bread and butter

Thanks,
Loren
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John Sulek

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Re: 8ch rig for 18 cities in USA and 8 in Europe in 2020
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2019, 05:14:49 pm »

This is still in its infancy but I might be putting together an 8ch rig for major cities in the USA and a handful of European cities (UK, Spain, Germany, France, Portugal and Italy)

The main reason to put our own rig together was the huge difference in quality from city to city and vendor to vendor. The countryman headsets that I put in the request were typical countryman, broken. Then came the scramble. Eventually started to request DPA but costs went through the roof. So I am toying around with putting together a wireless rack and just add it to the freight truck between shows.

I assume to do this tour with 1 rig I need as much spectrum as I can get, but Europe adds some variable I am hoping you guys can shed some light on. I've done some preliminary research and it seems that UHF is good for Europe (I know crazy license in UK required).

Question: Can ULXD swing this in 1 freq or am I gonna have to mortgage the farm and get axient?

Gig: all taking head corporate bread and butter

Thanks,
Loren

 To cover that many regions...I would look at wideband tuning tx and rx like Axient D, Wisycom, perhaps Senn 6000 but the tx aren't as wide tuning range as the rx.
 When I upgraded an artist's kit in 2018, we couldn't find a single ULXD freq block that we could be confident to find clear spectrum for, in all North American and UK markets as things move forward.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2019, 05:27:30 pm by John Sulek »
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Ike Zimbel

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Re: 8ch rig for 18 cities in USA and 8 in Europe in 2020
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2019, 06:27:27 pm »

To cover that many regions...I would look at wideband tuning tx and rx like Axient D, Wisycom, perhaps Senn 6000 but the tx aren't as wide tuning range as the rx.
 When I upgraded an artist's kit in 2018, we couldn't find a single ULXD freq block that we could be confident to find clear spectrum for, in all North American and UK markets as things move forward.
What John said. I recommend Axient Digital. I have used it successfully all over the US and Canada, in the UK, Ireland, France, Germany, Belgium, Switzerland, Australia, New Zealand and Japan. As soon as you have to buy two of anything cheap, (because of band issues) you may as well spend the $$ and get AD. Buying two of the 4 Ch receivers should offer some savings over buying four two channel systems.
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Loren Miller

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Re: 8ch rig for 18 cities in USA and 8 in Europe in 2020
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2019, 12:23:03 am »

thanks for confirming my suspicions!

I didnít know that the senn 6000 tx are narrower than the rx, that seems questionable?!?

My only complaint about Axient is the location of the power switch on the HH, turns a 1 hand operation into 2, very minor but annoying as all get out every time I use them?!?
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Russell Ault

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Re: 8ch rig for 18 cities in USA and 8 in Europe in 2020
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2019, 01:37:16 am »

I didnít know that the senn 6000 tx are narrower than the rx, that seems questionable?!?

It's classic Sennheiser (Lectro did it as well). Wideband receivers (with less space constraints) are easier to build than wideband transmitters, and most of the top-tier Sennhieser gear out there (think 5212s, etc) will have two or three (or more) bands of TX per band of RX.

My only complaint about Axient is the location of the power switch on the HH, turns a 1 hand operation into 2, very minor but annoying as all get out every time I use them?!?

You mean to say that you don't lock them out?

-Russ
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Daniel Levi

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Re: 8ch rig for 18 cities in USA and 8 in Europe in 2020
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2019, 07:25:34 am »

Though I will preface this with tye fact that wireless systems are not my area and I have not used them so can't comment on the quality the only option I know of for wideband rx AND tx is the DB Technologies MOVING D or RS1600 which has a frequency range of 470-870 MHZ (with 1600 channels), with even the log periodic antenna they supply being designed for the full frequency band.
Just on appearance and features they look to be at least mid range quality wise.
As for capsules the handhelds are Shure compatible and the bodypacks are Shure/Beyerdynamic compatible 4 pin mini-XLR.

https://www.dbtechnologies.com/en/products/radio-systems/touring-rack-moving-d/
https://www.dbtechnologies.com/en/products/radio-systems/rs16000/
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 07:30:30 am by Daniel Levi »
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Ike Zimbel

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Re: 8ch rig for 18 cities in USA and 8 in Europe in 2020
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2019, 10:37:27 am »

thanks for confirming my suspicions!

I didnít know that the senn 6000 tx are narrower than the rx, that seems questionable?!?

Yes, there are two TX bands in D6000. A1-4, 470-558 MHz, and A5-8, 550-638 MHz. I've used these in all the areas mentioned in my earlier post and they worked quite well, too. The two band thing is a bit of a pain, but the 8 MHz overlap between the two bands can be quite helpful if you put your spare TX's there. Of course, that's only useful if that 8 MHz is free of DTV...
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Jean-Pierre Coetzee

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Re: 8ch rig for 18 cities in USA and 8 in Europe in 2020
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2019, 02:11:54 am »

Just a question, why wouldn't you just buy the countryman headsets you need with all relevant adaptors and the just rent the wireless locally? I'm sure that in all the places you are planning on going there is decent providers for the actual RF equipment.
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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: 8ch rig for 18 cities in USA and 8 in Europe in 2020
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2019, 05:19:18 am »

^ +1. I had the same thought - this has to be the easiest way.

Chris
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Loren Miller

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Re: 8ch rig for 18 cities in USA and 8 in Europe in 2020
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2019, 07:26:32 am »



You mean to say that you don't lock them out?

-Russ
[/quote]

For everyone else Yes, but my HH I like to on/off myself.
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Loren Miller

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Re: 8ch rig for 18 cities in USA and 8 in Europe in 2020
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2019, 07:29:13 am »

^ +1. I had the same thought - this has to be the easiest way.

Chris

Def an option, but then I donít own 8ch of axient, that the client has paid for!!
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Mark Cadwallader

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Re: 8ch rig for 18 cities in USA and 8 in Europe in 2020
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2019, 12:14:52 pm »

An advantage (in my mind) of carrying your own gear is the ease of making sure you have a spare transmitter or two with you. It will also decrease the need for how many spare cordsets are needed/appropriate to carry for any given segment of the tour.

All of that gets balanced against the extra schleppage of a rack, risk of travel damage,  carnets, etc. Carrying your own means you know how the gear has been treated, including the coax for the tx antenna.  Maybe that's not an issue at this level of gear rental; it is way above my experience and part of the food chain, but that might be a consideration.

Carrying only earsets and cordsets seem like it would make travel a lot easier for you personally, but maybe that's not an issue for you on this job.
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John Sulek

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Re: 8ch rig for 18 cities in USA and 8 in Europe in 2020
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2019, 01:20:33 pm »

Just a question, why wouldn't you just buy the countryman headsets you need with all relevant adaptors and the just rent the wireless locally? I'm sure that in all the places you are planning on going there is decent providers for the actual RF equipment.
Always an option.
There are definitely high end rental houses on both sides of the Atlantic that can accommodate this with proper transport packaging and spares. UK providers could also deal with the licensing requirements.
 <www.missioncontrolltd.com> is a good place to get sorted for licensing in the UK/EU if you are providing your own gear.
Depending on how important having the exact same pieces at each show is...you could rent a US system and a Europe/UK system or break it down further into east/west coast US, UK, EU.
All depends on who wants to spend the money and how they want it spent.
If they are already shipping a lot of gear, your rf rack is not going to make or break the cost of shipping/carnet.
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Jason Glass

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Re: 8ch rig for 18 cities in USA and 8 in Europe in 2020
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2019, 01:55:39 pm »

You mean to say that you don't lock them out?
-Russ

For everyone else Yes, but my HH I like to on/off myself.

This won't power on/off, but it makes muting an easy one-hand operation.  It works on all modular capsule Shure and Axient RF handhelds.

https://www.shure.com/en-US/products/accessories/uams

brian maddox

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Re: 8ch rig for 18 cities in USA and 8 in Europe in 2020
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2019, 02:01:29 pm »

Def an option, but then I donít own 8ch of axient, that the client has paid for!!

Yeah, i'd buy the Axient unless there's just no way to swing the up front expense.  It'll be usable for a LONG time to come or could be sold for near retail right after the tour if you don't want to hold on to it.
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Karl Winkler

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Re: 8ch rig for 18 cities in USA and 8 in Europe in 2020
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2019, 04:15:08 pm »

It's classic Sennheiser (Lectro did it as well). Wideband receivers (with less space constraints) are easier to build than wideband transmitters, and most of the top-tier Sennhieser gear out there (think 5212s, etc) will have two or three (or more) bands of TX per band of RX.

FWIW the only times Lectro has done that is when a newer series or units come out and we still make the older one/s. We still make SMQVs (tune across 25 MHz) but the SRc & Venue 2s tune in 75 MHz bands. Later, 75 MHz transmitters came out. Now, we have receivers and transmitters that tune across about 144 MHz (DSQD, DBu, DHu).

-Karl
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Loren Miller

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Re: 8ch rig for 18 cities in USA and 8 in Europe in 2020
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2019, 10:22:44 am »

This won't power on/off, but it makes muting an easy one-hand operation.  It works on all modular capsule Shure and Axient RF handhelds.

https://www.shure.com/en-US/products/accessories/uams

Jason, you made my day!! Where have they been hiding these!!!!!!! An expensive mute switch, but now I can love Axient again!

Loren
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Re: 8ch rig for 18 cities in USA and 8 in Europe in 2020
¬ę Reply #16 on: November 22, 2019, 10:22:44 am ¬Ľ


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