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Author Topic: newbie update & dumb question?  (Read 893 times)

Luke Geis

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Re: newbie update & dumb question?
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2019, 04:53:41 pm »

There are pro's and con's to Subs on aux for sure. I prefer it myself and to me, it just makes more sense.

The big thing to keep in mind with subs on an aux is that there is no rule that says you can't put everything into the subs. A subs on aux system can be ran just as if it were a conventional L/R system. So no loss there. Some mixers do not really accommodate subs on an aux due to lack of being able to track the Aux level to the mains, but it can be done without issue with a little more work.

The biggest advantage of running subs on an aux is improved clarity of your mix and you can increase the available headroom to your subs. Since most all of the channels have no real reason to be in the subs, keeping them out of them can really help clean the mix up. Because you are not sending 24 some odd channels to the subs ( high passed or not ) the subs catch a huge break and their energy is spent on only the media you want it to reproduce.

It does require some more work to implement subs on an aux and there is a relationship to the mains that needs to be maintained in order to be right, but once this is done, you generally don't have to worry about it much. You can put anything into the subs that you wish, so you can have your cake and eat it too if you want.

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andyolsen

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Re: newbie update & dumb question?
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2019, 12:08:20 pm »

Thanks again everybody!

Frank- Do I understand correctly that the AES you mentioned is what I think of as a stage box of inputs/outputs?

W. Mark- Is "butt kicker" an actual company and product? It's something you put on the drummer's throne, right?

Doug- I've been using the L+R outputs of QuPac>IG4T input. Then crossover on IG4T at 120,out of IG4T via the "link"
XLR male output plug>JTR Captivator XLR female input.

But the Captivator does have controls for crossover etc.(mini toggle switch w/on,auto,off-standby and on lights-gain-
lf adjustment-crossover-and delay controls).

The weird thing, that I hadn't noticed till now, is that the sub also has a speakon output. But on one of the subs, that output
has a little cover on it. Not sure if it works or not.

So am I correct to think that I could run the L+R outputs from the QuPac into the sub, full range, and then to the IG4T's ,
if I can figure out the weird cover thingy?

I will try your trouble shooting idea on the subs and see what happens.
I think I should also call JTR and ask what he thinks.

Thanks again!
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Miguel Dahl

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Re: newbie update & dumb question?
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2019, 12:13:35 pm »

There are pro's and con's to Subs on aux for sure. I prefer it myself and to me, it just makes more sense.

The big thing to keep in mind with subs on an aux is that there is no rule that says you can't put everything into the subs. A subs on aux system can be ran just as if it were a conventional L/R system. So no loss there. Some mixers do not really accommodate subs on an aux due to lack of being able to track the Aux level to the mains, but it can be done without issue with a little more work.

The biggest advantage of running subs on an aux is improved clarity of your mix and you can increase the available headroom to your subs. Since most all of the channels have no real reason to be in the subs, keeping them out of them can really help clean the mix up. Because you are not sending 24 some odd channels to the subs ( high passed or not ) the subs catch a huge break and their energy is spent on only the media you want it to reproduce.

It does require some more work to implement subs on an aux and there is a relationship to the mains that needs to be maintained in order to be right, but once this is done, you generally don't have to worry about it much. You can put anything into the subs that you wish, so you can have your cake and eat it too if you want.

Do you have any examples for "any" desks about how to make the sub-aux track the main L/R?

This was my biggest hassle when I was mixing on analog desks. How would one do it now? Haven't done aux-subs or requested to have it set up that way for years because of that hassle, which I to be honest didn't dive into to make it "functional".

One can also use the mono send for feeding the subs, instead of an aux.
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W. Mark Hellinger

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Re: newbie update & dumb question?
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2019, 12:13:48 pm »


W. Mark- Is "butt kicker" an actual company and product? It's something you put on the drummer's throne, right?

Yes, it mounts on the drummer's throne.  More info here:

https://thebuttkicker.com/pro-audio/

Although (uh-hum):  "We're" not listed among the mfg's website's pro users... so I don't know what's up with that  :(  Although admittedly we don't "tour"... technically speaking I suppose... but we have played out of town!  More than once.  And all our friends tell us they like us.

« Last Edit: November 11, 2019, 12:21:45 pm by W. Mark Hellinger »
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andyolsen

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Re: newbie update & dumb question?
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2019, 01:04:34 pm »

Thanks guys.

Mike P. helped me with this, and I talked to Jeff about the crossover.

If any one needs it the crossover points on the 2 12 Captivator are(starting at the lowest setting to highest, 12 lines)
65,70,75,80,85,90,95,100,110,120,150,and 250 Hz's (? right? Hz's).
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Frank Koenig

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Re: newbie update & dumb question?
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2019, 01:19:24 pm »

Frank- Do I understand correctly that the AES you mentioned is what I think of as a stage box of inputs/outputs?

The AES output is a 2 channel digital audio output hard-wired to the left and right main mixes, as I recall. You can look up the AES3 or AES/EBU standard. Look in the QuPac documentation to see if it's configurable in any way. --Frank
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Gary Weller

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Re: newbie update & dumb question?
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2019, 01:58:23 pm »

Do you have any examples for "any" desks about how to make the sub-aux track the main L/R?

This was my biggest hassle when I was mixing on analog desks. How would one do it now? Haven't done aux-subs or requested to have it set up that way for years because of that hassle, which I to be honest didn't dive into to make it "functional".

One can also use the mono send for feeding the subs, instead of an aux.

On the Behringer/Midas X desks you use the Mono/Center feed for subs and in the setup menu you can link the mono/center follow the L/R.
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Sean Anderson

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Re: newbie update & dumb question?
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2019, 02:20:11 pm »

I use a post-fade matrix send on my boards, Presonus Studiolive iii. They track along with the channel faders and all subgroups, auxes, and channels can be individually added to the subs. I use a dca linked to all channels to turn everything up and down to make a board wide change, my master level. A matrix send is probably a good option on other desks.
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Douglas R. Allen

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Re: newbie update & dumb question?
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2019, 02:29:36 pm »

Thanks guys.

Mike P. helped me with this, and I talked to Jeff about the crossover.

If any one needs it the crossover points on the 2 12 Captivator are(starting at the lowest setting to highest, 12 lines)
65,70,75,80,85,90,95,100,110,120,150,and 250 Hz's (? right? Hz's).

Great.
Go into your tops set to 120hz. Down to the Subs with their crossover set to 120hz and set your levels to blend well and your good to go. You may find 120hz for the tops and 100hz for the subs blend better. This does lend well to Aux Fed subs down the line should you try it. In the future let us know how your like the C212's. Hearing good things about the subs and I may need smaller/lighter someday and I have your IG4T tops and I am interested how they work together for you. Its nice to have a real world evaluation.
Keep us posted.
Douglas R. Allen
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Luke Geis

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Re: newbie update & dumb question?
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2019, 03:59:09 pm »

There are a few different models that you can track the Mono bus to the L/R. These mixers make the task of subs on an aux easier. The most popular one for this is the Behringer X32 and Midas M32 models, but several others have a similar function. It is trivial if you ask me though. I set the master level where it needs to be early in the event and once it is set where it needs to be, I don't mess it much more and it's not very much work to shift up or down a couple of db and deal with the small shift in balance for a couple of seconds till I can adjust the aux master. I mean, 25 years ago you had no choice but to move another fader to track the subs to the mains. It isn't like the whole PA falls apart when you shift the level a few db. 
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Re: newbie update & dumb question?
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2019, 03:59:09 pm »


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