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Author Topic: Generator Bonding Question  (Read 3554 times)

Jamin Lynch

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Generator Bonding Question
« on: October 28, 2019, 01:10:20 pm »

I recently helped out with an event where the sound company tied into the main lugs on a 25k gennie. There was a bonding bar between the neutral and ground. There was some question at the time whether to leave it or remove it.

What would be the proper procedure for that?

Thanks
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Generator Bonding Question
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2019, 02:05:44 pm »

I recently helped out with an event where the sound company tied into the main lugs on a 25k gennie. There was a bonding bar between the neutral and ground. There was some question at the time whether to leave it or remove it.

What would be the proper procedure for that?

Thanks

Yes, presuming the generator's ground terminal was bonded to the genset trailer.  Code requires that neutral be bonded to the Grounding Electrode System *at the point of service* and a generator is considered the point of service (and it's also a "separately derived service" in Code-speak).  For generators there is the additional requirement (other than "cord and plug" connected to outlets on the generator itself) that the neutral be bonded to the generator frame, and the generator must be connected to a Grounding Electrode.

No other neutral/ground bonding should be used in the power distribution system.

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Mike Sokol

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Re: Generator Bonding Question
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2019, 07:31:52 pm »

Yes, presuming the generator's ground terminal was bonded to the genset trailer.  Code requires that neutral be bonded to the Grounding Electrode System *at the point of service* and a generator is considered the point of service (and it's also a "separately derived service" in Code-speak).  For generators there is the additional requirement (other than "cord and plug" connected to outlets on the generator itself) that the neutral be bonded to the generator frame, and the generator must be connected to a Grounding Electrode.

No other neutral/ground bonding should be used in the power distribution system.

Exactly right...
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charles strickland

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Re: Generator Bonding Question
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2020, 05:05:17 pm »

 Question , in the case of say a eu7000 honda were the neutral and  ground are not connected, should that be done at the coard set ?
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Steve-White

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Re: Generator Bonding Question
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2020, 08:21:03 pm »

Question , in the case of say a eu7000 honda were the neutral and  ground are not connected, should that be done at the coard set ?

No, per NEC is must be done at the source which in this case is the generator.  I don't remember the chapter and verse, it's been about 40 years ago.  When using a genset for backup power it's generally assumed the main service entrance panel has the neutral tied to ground and that's the only point - so sub panels, generators, equipment it floats.

When using a genny for event type power or stand-alone power, the neutral needs to be tied to ground and the generator is supposed to be grounded - not sure how often that happens.
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charles strickland

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Re: Generator Bonding Question
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2020, 09:38:00 pm »

Does this sound like crazy talk? I'm at a show in the park last weekend, aluminum stage sitting in the middle of a solid city block of concrete.the sound tec is setting up a generator feeder to a rack at the stage,I can't help myself and ask him how long will it take to drive in the ground stake. he said he wasn't using one that the ground and the neutral were floating. I've heard of a floating neutral but a floating ground. is there such a thing?
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Steve-White

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Re: Generator Bonding Question
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2020, 11:17:42 pm »

Does this sound like crazy talk? I'm at a show in the park last weekend, aluminum stage sitting in the middle of a solid city block of concrete.the sound tec is setting up a generator feeder to a rack at the stage,I can't help myself and ask him how long will it take to drive in the ground stake. he said he wasn't using one that the ground and the neutral were floating. I've heard of a floating neutral but a floating ground. is there such a thing?

The only thing floating was between his ears - clueless, BS'ing or both - I'd cast my vote in favor of clueless, with a bouquet of BS'ing to shake you off the trail.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2020, 01:07:59 pm by Steven A. White »
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Mike Monte

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Re: Generator Bonding Question
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2020, 11:52:48 pm »

No, per NEC is must be done at the source which in this case is the generator.  I don't remember the chapter and verse, it's been about 40 years ago.  When using a genset for backup power it's generally assumed the main service entrance panel has the neutral tied to ground and that's the only point - so sub panels, generators, equipment it floats.

When using a genny for event type power or stand-alone power, the neutral needs to be tied to ground and the generator is supposed to be grounded - not sure how often that happens.

The first time I ever thought about grounding a portable generator was when I was playing in a band at an Octoberfest in NH...had to be 15+ years ago.  We were playing on a portable stage with a portable generator for band power.

I had nothing to do with the PA so I went about my business setting up.

The PA got up and running with seemingly no problems.
As set up continued one of the band members (Electrical Engineer by trade) took a look at the generator and began shaking his head...  He then went out to his truck and came back with a set of "auto battery jumper cables" and proceeded to clip one end of claws on the gen's frame and the other end's claws to one of the metal stakes (driven into the ground) that supported the tent. 

"It didn't look safe..." he said.
 
 
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Rob Spence

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Re: Generator Bonding Question
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2020, 10:16:40 pm »

I made up a plug as suggested by Mr. Sokol where I took an orange male cord cap, connected neutral to ground and then labeled it.

Just plug it in to a receptacle on the generator and instant bond.
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charles strickland

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Re: Generator Bonding Question
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2020, 11:38:02 pm »

  So could I then add a jumper from my N to G in the 30 amp twist for the genny side and have my CS 50 on the other end that goes to my distro ? I understand that limits my 50 amp distro to 30 amp but does that get me a bonded neutral to ground at the genny ?             
   ( Drive a grounding rod in and I'm good to go. )
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Generator Bonding Question
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2020, 11:38:02 pm »


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