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Author Topic: Generator Bonding Question  (Read 3431 times)

Steve-White

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Re: Generator Bonding Question
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2020, 12:59:29 am »

  So could I then add a jumper from my N to G in the 30 amp twist for the genny side and have my CS 50 on the other end that goes to my distro ? I understand that limits my 50 amp distro to 30 amp but does that get me a bonded neutral to ground at the genny ?             
   ( Drive a grounding rod in and I'm good to go. )

That would work.  However, probably not kosher per NEC.  The generator should have provisions built into the power panel to bond the neutral to chassis ground.  That would be proper.  I can’t advise on this, but wouldn’t do it.

Liability there and safety.  There should be a bus, which may just be a stud.

Maybe someone else knows and can better describe it.  Find out the “right” way to do do it and be sure.

What generator are you using?  Are you sure it isn’t already bonded?  “Backup” is the key - to use a generator as backup power for a building the neutral floats in the generator and gets tied to ground in the service entrance panel.

Whereas generators designed for stand alone power have the neutral tied to chassis ground inside the power panel.  The generators I have can be used either way by bonding or removing the neutral depending upon usage.  Yours may be one that can be used for either application.

Look at user manual, if not sure call tech support or find somebody that is qualified to assist you.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Generator Bonding Question
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2020, 11:42:57 am »

The common way to bond neutral with ground is with an Edison 15 amp male plug, with a 12ga shorting wire between the neutral and ground terminals.  Just plug it in to 1 of the 2 Edison outlets on the face of the portable generator.
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Steve-White

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Re: Generator Bonding Question
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2020, 12:12:35 pm »

The common way to bond neutral with ground is with an Edison 15 amp male plug, with a 12ga shorting wire between the neutral and ground terminals.  Just plug it in to 1 of the 2 Edison outlets on the face of the portable generator.

I like that, very simple.  Wasn't sure it that was legit or not per NEC.  Just make up a shorting or jumper plug right?
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Generator Bonding Question
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2020, 01:11:53 pm »

I like that, very simple.  Wasn't sure it that was legit or not per NEC.  Just make up a shorting or jumper plug right?

Yep!

Mike Sokol had some comments here in this forum, IIRC, and he also posts about it in the recreational vehicle forums he participates in.
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

charles strickland

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Re: Generator Bonding Question
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2020, 03:15:12 pm »

 But what if I'm using the 30 amp split twist lock plug ?  I haven't used this type genny before,  just curious how to safely use an inverter style genny. ( honda eu's )  I see it used for sound a lot, might I add with no ground rod. I just wondered how they were bonding it. The lack of a grounding rod suggest they probably weren't.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Generator Bonding Question
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2020, 04:41:18 pm »

But what if I'm using the 30 amp split twist lock plug ?  I haven't used this type genny before,  just curious how to safely use an inverter style genny. ( honda eu's )  I see it used for sound a lot, might I add with no ground rod. I just wondered how they were bonding it. The lack of a grounding rod suggest they probably weren't.

Ground and neutral are the same regardless of the outlet type.  What Code specifically prohibits is bonding neutral and ground *at the load or its cord* which is why your earlier suggestion is not acceptable.

Code also permits ungrounded generators to power "plug and cord connected loads directly from an outlet on the generator frame."  If you're powering a distro from this 30 amp outlet, you'll need to bond the generator frame to a 'grounding electrode system.'

Search terms:  "separately derived service" and "National Electrical Code 445"

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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

charles strickland

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Re: Generator Bonding Question
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2020, 04:57:31 pm »

 Thanks Rob.  I didn't quite understand what you meant. So I went to mikes web site N S Z found cool video on it. I was going to build one but then I thought I'll get one from mike only to find out no longer available and his looks a lot cooler than the one I'm going to build. Should come in handy someday down the road.  Better to have and not to need . Thanks again.
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charles strickland

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Re: Generator Bonding Question
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2020, 05:01:00 pm »

   Got it Mike,  Thanks.
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charles strickland

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Re: Generator Bonding Question
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2020, 05:07:04 pm »

   Good thing I don't drink.  I meant to say,  Got it and Thank you   Tim
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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: Generator Bonding Question
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2020, 01:31:19 pm »

Does this sound like crazy talk? I'm at a show in the park last weekend, aluminum stage sitting in the middle of a solid city block of concrete.the sound tec is setting up a generator feeder to a rack at the stage,I can't help myself and ask him how long will it take to drive in the ground stake. he said he wasn't using one that the ground and the neutral were floating. I've heard of a floating neutral but a floating ground. is there such a thing?

I've mentioned it before-but this scenario again begs the discussion of grounding versus bonding.  Grounding is required by the NEC-but so is bonding and, in this case with a big aluminum stage, critical.  Bonding is creating an intentional metallic connection between anything which is likely to become energized-and an aluminum stage with cabling on it certainly qualifies-all it would take is a pinched cord to energize the entire stage.

Recently at my day job one of my techs installed some control buttons on a metal pole anchored to the concrete floor.  He failed to bond correctly, he also pinched a wire against a screw holding the plastic box onto the pole.  This energized the pole resulting in complaints.  Ultimately the mistake is on me as the supervisor-but we corrected it before we had an injury and had some training regarding the importance of bonding! Properly bonded, this would have blown a fuse/breaker and we would have found the problem in a much safer manner.
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Steve Swaffer

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Generator Bonding Question
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2020, 01:31:19 pm »


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