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Author Topic: EAW RS Series  (Read 5478 times)

Ivan Beaver

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Re: EAW RS Series
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2019, 12:52:25 pm »



You know Ivan, all this judging sensitivity and -3dB crap would go away if folks just moved to measured sensitivity with processing in place,..... a conversation we've had before, eh brother?  ;)
OK, so exactly HOW do you come up with a "sensitivity" with processing?

As soon as you add processing (boosting or cutting) the response is no longer either 2.83V or 1 watt.

At some freq it could be 15 watts and at other freq 1 watt.  So is it 3dB down, from the part that has a 15 dB boost?  So actually a 12dB boost to gete that response--------  That is kinda meaningless.

So you have NO reference.

In my opinion, the ONLY way is with a constant voltage (or calculated wattage based on that voltage).
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Mark Wilkinson

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Re: EAW RS Series
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2019, 07:57:42 pm »

OK, so exactly HOW do you come up with a "sensitivity" with processing?

As soon as you add processing (boosting or cutting) the response is no longer either 2.83V or 1 watt.

At some freq it could be 15 watts and at other freq 1 watt.  So is it 3dB down, from the part that has a 15 dB boost?  So actually a 12dB boost to gete that response--------  That is kinda meaningless.

So you have NO reference.

In my opinion, the ONLY way is with a constant voltage (or calculated wattage based on that voltage).

I think it is both simple and easy to come up with measured sensitivity after processing. 
All it takes is a decent  RMS voltmeter that can make average measurements over time, and a SPL meter that can do the same.

Take average readings of both voltage and SPL over the same time period, using pink noise.  Normalize to whatever voltage (2.83V) at whaterever distance (1m).
You're done.
 
Meters that can do this are readily available today, for not that much cost. 

Below is a sub I'm currently working on building. 
Red is raw.  Green is processed.
The measured average sensitivity of the processed  trace is 99.5dB at 2.83V  at 1 meter.


As you say, if boost is applied it will lower sensitivity.
It's easy to see that average sensitivity in the processed trace has to be taking take a bit of a hit for the up to 3dB of gain around 50Hz.

There's no ambiguity in the measurement...no judgement calls..other than what processed curve to use...which speaks for itself and intended usage.



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Taylor Hall

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Re: EAW RS Series
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2019, 08:24:54 pm »

Not much to see here...
Main/Monitor button.
I ran these indoors for 4-hours, they got warm but not hot. No fan, just large heat sink on the back
Perfect, fewer knobs and switches makes for easier setup with uninitiated hands.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: EAW RS Series
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2019, 11:21:08 am »

I think it is both simple and easy to come up with measured sensitivity after processing. 
All it takes is a decent  RMS voltmeter that can make average measurements over time, and a SPL meter that can do the same.

Take average readings of both voltage and SPL over the same time period, using pink noise.  Normalize to whatever voltage (2.83V) at whaterever distance (1m).
You're done.
 

I'm sorry, but I disagree.  For example, are you using a linear or a log sweep?  That will make a HUGE difference in the "voltage vs freq" reading.

The voltage MUST remain constant to have any sort of real meaning.

At least in my opinion.

By using "an average" of varying voltage, you are providing a very misleading idea of what the loudspeaker is capable of.

Sure it "might" provide something at low levels, but at "war volume" the actual result coming out of the loudspeaker can be VERY different.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2019, 11:57:58 am by Mac Kerr »
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Ivan Beaver
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Rory Buszka

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Re: EAW RS Series
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2019, 11:49:28 am »

I'm sorry, but I disagree.  For example, are you using a linear or a log sweep?  That will make a HUGE difference in the "voltage vs freq" reading.

The voltage MUST remain constant to have any sort of real meaning.

At least in my opinion.

By using "an average" of varying voltage, you are providing a very misleading idea of what the loudspeaker is capable of.

Sure it "might" provide something at low levels, but at "war volume" the actual result coming out of the loudspeaker can be VERY different.

Could this be done with band-limited, 6dB crest factor pink noise? It decomposes into sine waves, it contains constant voltage in every octave, and it can be filtered to provide the needed bandwidth for the effective frequency range of the speaker.

Also, who takes sensitivity measurements at "war volume"? The standard is 1W voltage at the nominal impedance of the speaker, measured at 1m. Otherwise you are baking power compression into the measurement.
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Mark Wilkinson

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Re: EAW RS Series
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2019, 12:30:16 pm »

I'm sorry, but I disagree.  For example, are you using a linear or a log sweep?  That will make a HUGE difference in the "voltage vs freq" reading.

The voltage MUST remain constant to have any sort of real meaning.

At least in my opinion.

By using "an average" of varying voltage, you are providing a very misleading idea of what the loudspeaker is capable of.

Sure it "might" provide something at low levels, but at "war volume" the actual result coming out of the loudspeaker can be VERY different.

Like Rory just said, as I did too in answering your HOW question....you use pink noise...no sweeps.
And again like Rory said, we were talking about sensitivity, and defining a f-3 frequency off of sensitivity. 
Nobody had said anything about max spl across the spectrum, which of course takes a different set of measurements.

Imo/ime, averaged SPL (LEQ) vs averaged voltage, taken over a time period sufficiently long enough to give settled average readings (typically <30 sec),
provides the most meaningful sensitivity spec I've encountered.

All it requires is to choose processing...which can be as simple as hpf and lpf only, or however complex you choose to make it.

Simply show the raw curve, the processed curve, and the average sensitivity measurement, and you have provided real unambiguous data imo.
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Ernie Montalvo

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Re: EAW RS Series
« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2021, 04:45:18 am »

Ordered a RS153 to demo. Spec sheet looks good. Price was right for a large format compression driver in a powered box with linear phase. Only other similarly priced box I found was the RCF ART 7 box. JBL SRX815P is interesting but the crossover @ 2khz is a strange compromise.

Looks like they're using a RCF ND840/850 for the 3" models.
The 1.75" driver used appears to be the Peerless DFM2544 or a variant. I have a pair of these and they are very good.


« Last Edit: March 18, 2021, 04:57:45 am by Ernie Montalvo »
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Andrea Litti

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Re: EAW RS Series
« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2021, 06:47:05 am »

Not much to see here...
Main/Monitor button.
I ran these indoors for 4-hours, they got warm but not hot. No fan, just large heat sink on the back

It looks identical to RCF Art-7 and Nx series control panel (no surprise)
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Ernie Montalvo

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Re: EAW RS Series
« Reply #28 on: March 24, 2021, 09:19:26 pm »

Sounds good. Measurements match the charts for the most part. The low crossover point is the main advantage for this box. Most in this price range other than RCF run the woofer an octave higher. I'm impressed how well it holds up at high volume. Good limiting behavior.

The compression driver used is the RCF ND840. As said above, no surprise there are RCF influences. 

Woofer is a no name stamped frame ferrite driver like most other boxes in this price range.
It has a decent sized motor and looks well designed for the application.

Build quality is clean inside and out. I'm tempted to add a brace and a little more damping but I doubt it would make much of a difference.







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Tommy Shannon

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Re: EAW RS Series
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2021, 03:42:31 pm »

Sounds good. Measurements match the charts for the most part. The low crossover point is the main advantage for this box. Most in this price range other than RCF run the woofer an octave higher. I'm impressed how well it holds up at high volume. Good limiting behavior.

The compression driver used is the RCF ND840. As said above, no surprise there are RCF influences. 

Woofer is a no name stamped frame ferrite driver like most other boxes in this price range.
It has a decent sized motor and looks well designed for the application.

Build quality is clean inside and out. I'm tempted to add a brace and a little more damping but I doubt it would make much of a difference.

I would be curious how the RS153 stacks up against the RSX126 or RSX129 - do you have access to either?
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Re: EAW RS Series
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2021, 03:42:31 pm »


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