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Author Topic: Rock and Roll safety thread from across the pond  (Read 569 times)

John Fruits

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Rock and Roll safety thread from across the pond
« on: October 15, 2019, 08:01:25 pm »

I just ran across this at Blue-room.org a British based theatrical forum.
https://www.blue-room.org.uk/index.php?showtopic=73514&pid=574315&st=0&#entry574315
GB has some fairly strict Health and Safety rules in place an the thread is about the lack of usual precautions with touring groups.

EDIT: Well I admit the across the pond thing doesn't really work since PSW has an international membership. 
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Rock and Roll safety thread from across the pond
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2019, 08:36:31 pm »

I just ran across this at Blue-room.org a British based theatrical forum.
https://www.blue-room.org.uk/index.php?showtopic=73514&pid=574315&st=0&#entry574315
GB has some fairly strict Health and Safety rules in place an the thread is about the lack of usual precautions with touring groups.

EDIT: Well I admit the across the pond thing doesn't really work since PSW has an international membership.

Across the Pond is the name of a Beatles tribute act I have worked with...

I read the Blue Room thread last week.  Would be interesting to see a Venue "safety Sam" tell a road crew they couldn't work in his/her building until they got more sleep...
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Justice C. Bigler

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Re: Rock and Roll safety thread from across the pond
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2019, 10:50:29 pm »

Across the Pond is the name of a Beatles tribute act I have worked with...

I read the Blue Room thread last week.  Would be interesting to see a Venue "safety Sam" tell a road crew they couldn't work in his/her building until they got more sleep...
As a member of a bus and truck touring crew who had an absolutely brutal tech period, I would support this proposal.
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Justice C. Bigler
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Steve M Smith

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Re: Rock and Roll safety thread from across the pond
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2019, 03:07:19 am »

As a member of a bus and truck touring crew who had an absolutely brutal tech period, I would support this proposal.


We have legislation in the UK which limits drivers (bus and truck) hours to about nine hours a day (can be ten hours twice per week) a maximum of 56 hours per week and no more than 90 hours in two consecutive weeks. 


I don't think there are such regulations for any other trade (perhaps for pilots).


Steve.
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John Sulek

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Re: Rock and Roll safety thread from across the pond
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2019, 10:05:57 am »


We have legislation in the UK which limits drivers (bus and truck) hours to about nine hours a day (can be ten hours twice per week) a maximum of 56 hours per week and no more than 90 hours in two consecutive weeks. 


I don't think there are such regulations for any other trade (perhaps for pilots).


Steve.

 Very true..but before the computer tachographs you would see the drivers in catering meticulously tracing a "good" day onto a blank tacho disk if there was a brutal drive coming up.
 The rules are only as good as the desire to follow them.
 This type of driving regulation is now in effect in North America and tours have had to adjust to using co-drivers on a lot of overnight runs. Long overdue.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Rock and Roll safety thread from across the pond
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2019, 03:57:44 pm »


We have legislation in the UK which limits drivers (bus and truck) hours to about nine hours a day (can be ten hours twice per week) a maximum of 56 hours per week and no more than 90 hours in two consecutive weeks. 


I don't think there are such regulations for any other trade (perhaps for pilots).


Steve.

We have hours of service limitations in the USA.  Until electronic logs were required it was common for some truck drivers to use multiple paper logs books.  Years ago I was in line at a weigh station while a Tennessee compliance officer was working her way down the line, inspecting logs.  She accepted my logging, said goodbye and then came back a minute later and said "oh, I need to see your other log book too."  "Uh, I only have 1 log book."  "I had to ask.  The guy in line in front of you just fell for it."  I looked up and he was being directed out of the line.  The officer told me she was suspicious of the other driver because he appeared significantly more fatigued than his logged hours would suggest.

That used to be very common in the regional production business - if you had or would get a CDL (commercial driver's license) you'd get paid more but you'd never get enough sleep to be legal.

There was an incident in the San Francisco Bay area a year or so ago - a tech coming off a 20 hour day and a variety of chemical "enhancements" failed to slow and stop for a toll collection, rammed the toll booth and killed the worker inside.  Between fatigue and drug use that masked the fatigue this was an all-around fail.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2019, 04:08:24 pm by Tim McCulloch »
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

gordonmcgregor

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Re: Rock and Roll safety thread from across the pond
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2019, 04:37:06 pm »

My one big worry these days is rigging even a medium size gig involves far more flying of equipment than it ever as. Jstice is finding out the hard way how hard it can sometimes be when touring a technical show, these day even a smaller rock and roll show has a lot of kit that needs to be set up and taken down every night sometimes 7 times a week for several weeks in a row, then driven for a few hours and reset for that night's show.
I have seen mistakes and probably made some myself (fortunately nobody was hurt). I know of at least 2 fatal car/van crashes in the last 5 years or so that were more than likely caused by fatigue.
Would I refuse to work with someone who was obviously tired and maybe a danger, well I have and will continue to do so, one 50ft chain getting dropped out of a rig becase a tired person missed the shout to take the weight is enough.(it missed me by 2ft and it was me on the rope!)
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Justice C. Bigler

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Re: Rock and Roll safety thread from across the pond
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2019, 06:58:37 pm »

One would think that either or all of IATSE or the ESA or ETCP would be the natural organizations to start enforcing the one nighters/short turn around rules for touring productions. But none of them seem to be interested in doing it.
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Craig Hauber

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Re: Rock and Roll safety thread from across the pond
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2019, 03:13:29 pm »

One would think that either or all of IATSE or the ESA or ETCP would be the natural organizations to start enforcing the one nighters/short turn around rules for touring productions. But none of them seem to be interested in doing it.
There are thousands of events every week where those organizations are not even involved in any way.  Even if you corrected every last one of the touring entities you would have multitudes of smaller operators still going about their business in an unsafe manner.

This by no means don't stop trying.
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Patrick Tracy

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Re: Rock and Roll safety thread from across the pond
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2019, 08:20:01 pm »

I just ran across this at Blue-room.org a British based theatrical forum.

I want to read that thread but I'm too tired and need to take a nap before my load out shift tonight.

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Re: Rock and Roll safety thread from across the pond
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2019, 08:20:01 pm »


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