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[Alan Gibson]

I do mostly dance music events, and the wisdom seems to be "2 subs per top". I'm very interested in the cardioid mode of the 118s as I'd like to have a ton of bass without it overpowering the audience, and sometimes we have medium sized rooms instead of open outdoor spaces. My current setup is one KW 181 and two 153s. If I add on 3 KS 118s, will cardioid mode still work as intended? Is it even worth the extra $$ per subwoofer?

[Bob Stone]

The KS118 pricing seems to be the same as the KW181 was.

As for if Cardiod will work, I'm guessing the answer is no...there is a distinct "Forward" and "Rear" setting, in addition to off, so I suspect they're doing processing on the forward facing ones too. Although there might still be a way to do it.

Honestly, in your situation if you're considering buying 3 KS118's, I'd suggest you sell the one KW181 and just get 4 KS118's so you have a full matched set.

[Mal Brown]

that!

[John L Nobile]

I do mostly dance music events, and the wisdom seems to be "2 subs per top". I'm very interested in the cardioid mode of the 118s as I'd like to have a ton of bass without it overpowering the audience, and sometimes we have medium sized rooms instead of open outdoor spaces. My current setup is one KW 181 and two 153s. If I add on 3 KS 118s, will cardioid mode still work as intended? Is it even worth the extra $$ per subwoofer?

Am I reading this correctly? It sounds like you want more bass onstage than in the room?

[Alan Gibson]

Am I reading this correctly? It sounds like you want more bass onstage than in the room?

No, I'm under the impression that cardioid mode will allow there to be more bass felt in the crowd without blowing people's ears away.

[Gary Greyhosky]

No, I'm under the impression that cardioid mode will allow there to be more bass felt in the crowd without blowing people's ears away.

You seem to be misunderstanding the point of cardioid subwoofers and subwoofer arrays. Cardioid subs and subwoofer arrays are designed to reduce the amount of low frequency energy behind the subwoofer or subwoofer array. This is useful for keeping low frequency energy off of the stage. Won't be a determining factor in whether or not you "blow people's ears away".

There is a plethora of information available on this subject. You can search the PSW forums or just google "cardioid subwoofer array".

[Tim McCulloch]

No, I'm under the impression that cardioid mode will allow there to be more bass felt in the crowd without blowing people's ears away.

Eh... not really.

Subwoofer arrays of various types allow you to create directivity of energy dispersion, front-to-back.  In a "reversed sub, polarity-inverted and delayed" array (cardioid), 3 subs are typically used.  Picture a row of 3, 2x18" subs standing on end, with the middle sub facing upstage.  That box has it's signal polarity-inverted and delayed by roughly 1/4 wavelength of the frequency at which you desire the greatest rear cancellation.  Stacking the subs differently will give somewhat different results but it's all based on time (frequency) and distance.

Note the language I used there... it's about *cancelling* energy behind the array.  But you can still blow peoples away with a cardioid array if you have enough of it.

If your subs are too loud for whoever is paying, they're too loud.  If people are calling in complaints, your subs are too loud.  Arrayed or not does enter into the question.

[Mike Santarelli]

I just heard the ks118 next to a 181. It is a bit of improvement over the kw181 but honestly an RCF 8003 would crush it and you can probably get one close to the MAP of the ks118.

If you are going to put money out, get something that is a big step up. For the money the 8003 may be the best I’ve heard.

[Bob Stone]

I just heard the ks118 next to a 181. It is a bit of improvement over the kw181 but honestly an RCF 8003 would crush it and you can probably get one close to the MAP of the ks118.

If you are going to put money out, get something that is a big step up. For the money the 8003 may be the best I’ve heard.

"Crush", really? How many grains of salt should we be taking this feedback with? Spec wise there's nothing between them. There's only so much performance you can get out of a single 18" direct radiating sub in a small enclosure.

[Mike Santarelli]

"Crush", really? How many grains of salt should we be taking this feedback with? Spec wise there's nothing between them. There's only so much performance you can get out of a single 18" direct radiating sub in a small enclosure.
[/quote

Hi Bob, thanks for the Condescending  response. I am speaking purely from the impact  when hearing them. Sorry, wasn’t able to compare directly the ks118 to an 8003 but the 8003 made a much bigger impact when I heard it. Own a bunch of MI grade gear and some kw181s. , I can say without a doubt the 8003 sounds better. It’s cleaner, and more impactful. I get “ There's only so much performance you can get out of a single 18" direct radiating sub in a small enclosure.” but surely you should know that not all speakers and subs are created equally. People rave about the srx828 but since I’ve owned the 9006 they sit. There is nothing between the specs there either. I guess you wouldn’t believe me that one 9006 is roughly equal to two 828 and it sounds much better?


So “crush”, take as you will. There are much better subs for the same price or slightly more. I wouldn’t go swapping kw181 for the new ks118. I’d get something on the next level.


Have a great day. I’ll still comfortably say that an 8003 will crush (flat out perform) either the ks118 or kw181).

Also, why would I even consider something like a meyer upj or x40 when a qsc k10 is roughly the same size and specs are similar?

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