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[Sam Saponaro Jr]

In addition to my bands I play in,I have been running small scale sound for a number of years. I had the good fortune to work for a popular local band for 7yrs that played quite often all seasoned older musicians that were nice guys to work with.And after that another good band for a short period.After that folded I started taking jobs with my small system doing clubs and field days stuff for extra cash. Things were ok for the most part bands were happy got good feedback from owners and musicians etc.... But last time I went out(befor recently getting called by a band I worked with befor)I stopped for a year and a half cause of BS.
THE BS:I had gotten a call from a drummer freind(who had no part in the BS)who need a system cause their bass player had quit and took his pa with him.....OK. So I go in for half price to be a good freind. I dont have a crazy nice system but a stack of EAW a side(90deg coverage) crown amps and Ashly,Klark Tek rack beat thier old behringer rig 10x. I set up and in walks the lead singer girlfriend on arm sipping JD from a flask like AXL ROSE just stepped outta the limo....OK Whatever. I set up the mic line in back of the speaker stacks about even with the cab backs(ground level small club gig) or so and was running full range cross wash monitors for guitar and vox foldback(as per what they asked for in thier mix). I sound check,the band starts,a few songs in I get a good mix on things the crowd of 100 or so is into it dancing and toe tapping yadda yadda. Well meanwhile the girlfreinds and brothers and besties are crammed up(on "stage") past the speaker stacks belly up to the mic stands hearing the monitors not the pa. Then the bitching starts.....every gf and bestie says"all you can hear is vocals"....I explain your hearing monitors not the front..step back a few feet to hear the PA.....then the next gf and the next gf....(Mind you were taliing a 90deg coverage one stack little club system here,which they knew they were getting) Then the band stops and "The star" starts the insulting crap through the FOH about "were not playing till this F&^%ing mess is fixed"......then the clinching"we want to hear it like in the basement".then the crowd starts yelling at the band "WTF is your problem you sound great out here" the argueing with the crowd starts and crowd start walking out. Then "The star" steps out front and starts wanking on guitars  and telling everyone to hit drums etc..with ear in pa cab(only to find out low and behold it was loud enough)....After 5mins of his tangent(and keeping my cool)I got so fed up I told my helper to watch the consule (hes a soundguy also)and i went into the truck for a couple cigs,contemplating shutting down.Im not an arguer/fighter etc... so this crap is hard to swallow..especially being as I try to go outta my way to make the bands I work for happy. Well I bit the bullet and finished the night then into storage the pa went,till a few weeks ago when I got a call to do a wlk in running a bands QSC system(good guys I worked with befor)
Anyways moral is I'm doing some upgrades and want to start getting back out,but how do you guys deal with this kinda crap when you run into it.Attitudes and tantrums and inner head stardom.
 OH and FYI when I was told the guitar player/singer's(the star) marshall blew up I brought along my personal JCM800 loaded with mullards to be a nice guy.   (is thier a jack@ss emoji??)

[Chris Grimshaw]

Sam,

It'd be great if you could use the enter key a few times

like

this

which makes it much much easier to read large blocks of text.


My recommendation would be to talk to the drummer friend and make it clear that you won't tolerate that again. Your call if you want to work with them again or not. In the interest of maintaining the friendship, it might be best if you don't.

Chris

[Bob Faulkner]

Sounds like you were dealing with a bunch of inexperienced "kids" whom have a well-formed image of themselves... you can't fix this. 

Having worked with a few "bands" (years ago) similar to your experiences, I usually would tell the "problem" band members (as soon as the BS starts), that I didn't care how much screaming or bitching they did, because they didn't understand enough about preforming to understand what's going on or how to communicate.  I would usually follow up with a, "I'm setting your monitor levels as a place to start.  Let me know if you need them louder or softer... other than that, shut the F** up".

Once my (temporary) aggressive personality was established, most (not all) of the BS was quelled. 

With bands that have serious personality issues, I didn't care too much how I treated them because  1.) they were toxic and I was not going to spend my time around toxic people, 2.) bands that have serious issues usually don't stay together; so it was easy not to get attached (personally or professionally) to anyone of them.

I never mixed twice for a band that had serious issues.  It's not worth it.

[Kevin Maxwell]

This sounds like the kind of situation where some front fills would have helped. Then the problem is where do you put them in a room like you described. But usually the instruments carry and fill in the area right in front of the stage if not even more of the room. I don’t know what mixer you are using but with the digital mixers available now a days you have a lot of flexibility to feed a front fill from a matrix and put into it what is needed to fill in that hole. And it shouldn’t be run so loud that it gives you and feedback or overlap issues with the mains.

Also if you know how to, delaying the mains to the backline can really help to tighten everything up. At least it has worked great for me. I also am careful to do the best as I can to time align the Front Fills to the house system and put in them only what will be missing in that area.

Any time a band member quits like you described I start to wonder how bad is the band to deal with. That red flag right there is enough to put me on my guard. And band groupies and alcohol is a really bad combination. I don’t work with these kinds of groups but I still have to deal with jerks sometimes. To them I am probably the jerk.

[Luke Geis]

Most musicians that come to some level of success acquire an ego. Now some of them are level headed and some truly are that narcissistic. The industry of being a live sound engineer is one of thick skin and personality management. I often feel that I spend about 75% or more of my talent in dealing with personality. If you can get dealing with personality down, then thick skin and actually doing the job become pretty easy. You only have to have thick skin because you are doing a job that is 100% subjective. You are 100% guaranteed to have a situation where someone is not happy with your work. The funny thing is that the person may not even be the one paying you.

Being broadsided by ego is where it gets hard. You are now dealing with someone who obviously doesn't respect or care about your talent and is only interested in stroking their ego. If you don't have thick skin, you might make a decision that is just as brash and detrimental to your name and reputation as the ego you're dealing with. Just remember it is always easier to explain that you did what was necessary to appease said ego. This does not mean you have to be a floor mat or take BS, there is a fine line, and only you can decide where that fine line is. It's your equipment and your work; if you want to tell someone they can't talk to you that way, or they aren't going to get what they asked for, that is all up to you. It is generally easier to not have to start pulling cards and having pissing contests though. My only advice is to learn how to more quickly asses and manage those types of situations.

I suppose if it were me I would give my opinion of how it sounds first followed by you are not hearing the same thing as the rest of us. Or: I think it sounds great, you are behind the monitors and not hearing the same thing as us. Come on out and hear for yourself.

Giving them your opinion means they now have to argue your feelings ( they have to decide to pick a fight ) and your explanation means that they now have to weigh evidence about whether to argue and then asking them to check it out means you feel confident about your statement. Anything they do after that, short of saying ok and continuing to play, turns them into the asshole.

Alternatively you could just turn the requested instrument up or down and not even think anymore of it.

[W. Mark Hellinger]

I recall I working with a customer that complained especially bitterly... non-stop... seems I couldn't do anything right... and she didn't care who she let know that IHO, "I left a lot to be desired".  At the end of the event, I handed her check back and apologized... she stood there shocked... totally speechless for the first moment since she'd first walked through the door.  After her wheels stopped spinning somewhat... and I'm bracing myself figuring "here it comes... she gonna tell me what she really thinks"... but quite the opposite as she started to tear-up and explained she knew she can be "hard to work with", and apologized profusely, said she's working on "that" and that she can get stressed out and such, and didn't mean to take it out on me, and "understood if I never wanted to work with her again", etc... but please, if I'd consider, she'd really like it if I would be available to work with her in the future as she was super satisfied with the job I'd done.  She turned out to be a really good client.

[Sam Saponaro Jr]

Sam,

It'd be great if you could use the enter key a few times

like

this

which makes it much much easier to read large blocks of text.


My recommendation would be to talk to the drummer friend and make it clear that you won't tolerate that again. Your call if you want to work with them again or not. In the interest of maintaining the friendship, it might be best if you don't.

Chris

Yea they did call again I politely said I had another gig that night out of town(even tho my schedule was open).
And turns out months later that band folded up.
I just am leary of running into a huge BS fest at a gig again. Mostly Im looking for a few bands to work with that like my work and want to use my system regularly. But in the process am leary of dealing with that kinda crap again.
BTW sorry bout my typeing.....I am writting a novel tho,if interested.....its a 500 page small font run on sentence....

[Gary Phillips]

Yea they did call again I politely said I had another gig that night out of town(even tho my schedule was open).
And turns out months later that band folded up.
I just am leary of running into a huge BS fest at a gig again. Mostly Im looking for a few bands to work with that like my work and want to use my system regularly. But in the process am leary of dealing with that kinda crap again.
BTW sorry bout my typeing.....I am writting a novel tho,if interested.....its a 500 page small font run on sentence....

Someone beat you to it!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/23/booker-prize-longlist-2019-1000-page-novel-one-sentence/

[Tim Weaver]

I usually extend my middle finger..... And then use it to press the mute button.

If you aren't getting paid enough, and they aren't being pro enough, and the gig is not likely to lead to more/better work then you don't have to put up with the BS. Either charge a fair price, or refuse to continue until the tantrums stop.

Also, band GF's always suck at a gig. Put them side stage and keep them away from FOH.

[Brian Jojade]

If your skin isn't thick enough to absorb the rants of a crazy band member's GF, then live sound isn't the business for you.

Any band that is playing on stage and makes any scene about the sound while on stage in front of a crowd is not there to entertain the crowd.  Good bands will suck it up and deal with just about anything and focus on entertaining the crowd.  During break, they'll deal with getting it corrected if possible.

If it were me, from what you described, I wouldn't be taking jobs from this band again.  There's a TON of low pay work out there.  Pass on this one.

[ProSoundWeb Community]