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Author Topic: Network config - questions  (Read 922 times)

David Allred

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Network config - questions
« on: September 12, 2019, 12:56:39 pm »

I recently added a 2nd laptop to separate audio (MR18, Venu360, and DR260 via network/usb convertor) from lighting control. 
I had a 5-port switch in the rack housing the above on stage hardwired to the mix position (laptop) with an Airport Express for routing.  All IP's assigned dynamically by the AE.
I added another 5-port switch at the mix position for the 2 laptops.  I also connect wirelessly with a tablet.

I did a several day burn-in to check for disconnections, laptop lock-ups (main reason for the 2nd laptop), etc.

I experienced several connection losses to the MR18.  The network was still intact, but I have to re-link the software to the box.  The was no activity or inputs sources during the burn-in.  The duration of connectivity varied, but being set-up in a spare room, I would check randomly, as convenient.  Laptop set to never turn off screen or sleep.  (win7)

Question 1 - Would lack of activity cause a software disconnection?
Question 2 - What would cause the loss of software connection?
Question 3 - DCHP related?

I would consider going to static addressing if it would fix this problem. 

Question 4 - If the laptops are assigned static IP's, will that affect them trying to get onto another network wirelessly for internet without reconfiguring?

Thanks.

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Brian Adams

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Re: Network config - questions
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2019, 01:39:02 pm »

It's hard to know exactly what's going on with your network without seeing it, but my guess is that it's the laptop or software on the laptop losing the connection, not the network or the mixer. Most mixers are controlled for the duration of a show, maybe all day, but not typically several days in a row of being connected and not used. And if restarting the software fixes the problem, the problem is likely with the software.

This is not DHCP related, although if these devices are always on the same network there's no reason not to set them static. Using DHCP, once your equipment gets an address from the router it will continue getting the same address each time it's connected, unless it remains unconnected longer than the lease time (typically 30 days by default). A static IP will ensure that it always gets the same address no matter what, which is useful, but that's not causing your disconnects.

If your laptops are connected to the router wirelessly and have a static IP, you will have to change that before putting them on another network (unless the other network has the same network prefix/subnet and nothing already at your IP address, which is unlikely). It's also probably unlikely that you'll connect to a wired network other than this one, so you can set the wired address to static without affecting the wifi address, since they're separate network adapters within the machine.
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Taylor Hall

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Re: Network config - questions
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2019, 01:42:46 pm »

Is the MR18 dropout occurring on the tablet or laptop or both? Also, what app/program is being used to control it? Were you able to see if it was the laptop/tablet that was losing connection and not the mixer?

#1 is plausible but would depend on the software being used, I personally have not experienced this with our M32 using mixing station or M32 Edit, both wired and wireless.

#2 Most portable devices have pretty intensive power management routines baked into the OS. Tablets and the like are harder to dial it back on, but laptops are a bit easier. In windows you can open the power settings in the control panel and look at the advanced settings there. There are a few guides online about what to look for depending on the make/model laptop you have, different OEMs have different options.

#3 Unlikely unless you are seeing the IP of your mixer change in the software when you go to reconnect

#4 Potentially, yes. It depends on how the other networks are configured, so there's a good chance you'll have to go back to letting DHCP sort it out. You can get around this (on a laptop at least) by getting an additional USB wifi dongle and assigning your static settings there, then simply disable it when you're not running FOH.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Network config - questions
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2019, 09:57:17 pm »

I recently added a 2nd laptop to separate audio (MR18, Venu360, and DR260 via network/usb convertor) from lighting control. 
I had a 5-port switch in the rack housing the above on stage hardwired to the mix position (laptop) with an Airport Express for routing.  All IP's assigned dynamically by the AE.
I added another 5-port switch at the mix position for the 2 laptops.  I also connect wirelessly with a tablet.

I did a several day burn-in to check for disconnections, laptop lock-ups (main reason for the 2nd laptop), etc.

I experienced several connection losses to the MR18.  The network was still intact, but I have to re-link the software to the box.  The was no activity or inputs sources during the burn-in.  The duration of connectivity varied, but being set-up in a spare room, I would check randomly, as convenient.  Laptop set to never turn off screen or sleep.  (win7)

Question 1 - Would lack of activity cause a software disconnection?
Question 2 - What would cause the loss of software connection?
Question 3 - DCHP related?

I would consider going to static addressing if it would fix this problem. 

Question 4 - If the laptops are assigned static IP's, will that affect them trying to get onto another network wirelessly for internet without reconfiguring?

Thanks.

Do you have the power save features turned off in the hardware setup for your laptop, BIOS and Windows?  With power API's today they all work together and have to be all off.

Better yet, install Linux on a dedicated laptop, Midas has a version for Linux!

One last thing, the Airport is acting as a wireless bridge.  No routing is done at all.  You have one network, a routers job is to forward packets between networks.

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman
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David Allred

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Re: Network config - questions
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2019, 10:08:30 pm »

Do you have the power save features turned off in the hardware setup for your laptop, BIOS and Windows?  With power API's today they all work together and have to be all off.

Better yet, install Linux on a dedicated laptop, Midas has a version for Linux!

One last thing, the Airport is acting as a wireless bridge.  No routing is done at all.  You have one network, a routers job is to forward packets between networks.

The Airport is handing out the ip addresses.  Not sure about the bios settings, but the laptop screen was on when the MR18 Edit had to reconnect.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Network config - questions
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2019, 02:36:18 am »

The Airport is handing out the ip addresses.  Not sure about the bios settings, but the laptop screen was on when the MR18 Edit had to reconnect.

I suggest you read our network primer.  The AE answers requests for addresses via a protocol called DHCP.  Dynamic Host Control Protocol.

Back to my point.  Screen is not relevent network sleep mode may have engaged.  You must check the BIOS, device software and Windows settings.

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Rory Buszka

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Re: Network config - questions
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2019, 09:39:39 am »


One last thing, the Airport is acting as a wireless bridge.  No routing is done at all.  You have one network, a routers job is to forward packets between networks.


This is technically incorrect. The router's job, most simply, is to assign IP addresses and then forward packets to the outputs that have those addresses connected. You need exactly one router on a network, even if it is isolated from the rest of the world. If you have two computers then you need a router between them. (Yes, it is possible to configure a peer to peer network over a crossover LAN cable, but it would be pedantic to mention that since it's not relevant to the situation.)

Modern routers have much more to do, like wireless protocols, port forwarding, security, yada yada.

I got a certification in this stuff about 19 years ago while I was still in high school so it's possible things have moved on but the basics of how TCP/IP networks work haven't changed.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 09:41:57 am by Rory Buszka »
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David Allred

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Re: Network config - questions
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2019, 10:01:13 am »

I suggest you read our network primer.  The AE answers requests for addresses via a protocol called DHCP.  Dynamic Host Control Protocol.

Back to my point.  Screen is not relevent network sleep mode may have engaged.  You must check the BIOS, device software and Windows settings.

Read the prime thread.  Is this vvv what you are talking about?
https://www.addictivetips.com/windows-tips/stop-network-adapter-from-getting-disabled-in-windows-7/

Searched around for bios network settings.   Found comments about "S1 - S3", but no info about where those are in bios, or even what they do... other than that they are levels.  I'm working with a Dell Latitude if that helps.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Network config - questions
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2019, 01:13:12 pm »

This is technically incorrect. The router's job, most simply, is to assign IP addresses and then forward packets to the outputs that have those addresses connected. You need exactly one router on a network, even if it is isolated from the rest of the world. If you have two computers then you need a router between them. (Yes, it is possible to configure a peer to peer network over a crossover LAN cable, but it would be pedantic to mention that since it's not relevant to the situation.)

Modern routers have much more to do, like wireless protocols, port forwarding, security, yada yada.

I got a certification in this stuff about 19 years ago while I was still in high school so it's possible things have moved on but the basics of how TCP/IP networks work haven't changed.

Scott is well aware, he founded and owned an ISP and paging/cellular company.  If you guys want to play "show me yours and I'll show you mine" with certifications it's probably best done behind closed doors. ::)

The Consumer term "router" is just that, for consumers and not industrial or IT use.  I've posted in these and other forums about the semantics of it all and usually find all I've accomplished is pissing off people who are positive they're right because the product box from Best Buy or Staples says "router" on it.
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Jason Joseph

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Re: Network config - questions
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2019, 02:06:21 pm »

Read the prime thread.  Is this vvv what you are talking about?
https://www.addictivetips.com/windows-tips/stop-network-adapter-from-getting-disabled-in-windows-7/

Searched around for bios network settings.   Found comments about "S1 - S3", but no info about where those are in bios, or even what they do... other than that they are levels.  I'm working with a Dell Latitude if that helps.

Control Panel -> Power Options -> Change Plan Settings (Most likely set to balanced) -> Advanced Settings (look for wireless adapter or network settings and ensure your network card isnt set to sleep to save power)

Another way is to use the performance profile that will force your laptop to use high power resources by default..
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Network config - questions
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2019, 02:06:21 pm »


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