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Author Topic: Fundraiser losses....  (Read 3529 times)

Dave Guilford

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Re: Fundraiser losses....
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2019, 08:54:05 pm »

Discount gear (assuming itís paid for) as much as you like. But I NEVER discount labor.  My team has got to be paid for their work.
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Steven Eudaly

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Re: Fundraiser losses....
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2019, 10:44:13 pm »

Discount gear (assuming itís paid for) as much as you like. But I NEVER discount labor.  My team has got to be paid for their work.

+1000

Talented people are your company's most valuable asset.

Scott Holtzman

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Re: Fundraiser losses....
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2019, 12:00:07 am »

Oh how I wish I lived in the areas of the country where live music is valued, and production and talent are compensated accordingly.

I can't tell you how many times we had local organizations contact us for production, and then sort of expected that we do it for free or for what amounted to beer money (in one instance, a brewery actually wanted to pay us with beer because they were hosting a fund-raiser and didn't want to pay any out-of-pocket expenses).

As soon as I would say "no" to those types of shows, another local ankle-biter would jump at it and take the show. We have far too many "buddy with a PA" type of guys here in southern WI who will happily provide full truss, moving lights, PA, monitors, etc. for peanuts. They take the low paying/freebies, post like crazy on social media, and end-up getting most of the events (granted, for very little $$). But since they didn't have any serious costs, it didn't matter to them. Made it very difficult to get a foot in the door and provide some "real" production services.

I'm so glad I'm out of that side of the business.

Sorry for the diversion... I feel your pain. No matter how low in price you go, they'll always ask for more of a discount!

We have our share of trunk slammers too.  There is a ton of free work and they are welcome to it.  Essentially people that expect people to work for free don't care about accountability.  Those who pay a reasonable fee to a real company can count on a consistent job.  Most of the time this accountability does not involve sound quality.  Lot's of mediocre work done professionally is more desirable than one dude futzing with the PA...

I look at it this way, not counting Eighth Day because they are not really in the niches I play. So discounting them there are three large comapies with revenues of 5M or more and another 10 with between 500k and 1M then another 5 with about 250k in revenue.  That makes Cleveland a 25M production market.  If I can get 5% of the market by the time I retire I will be happy.

I am doing my first ever free gig for a local musician diagnosed with pancreatic cancer.  Venue donated room and food + green room.  I had four volunteers to work the gig the same day.
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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Tim Hite

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Re: Fundraiser losses....
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2019, 12:55:12 am »

I figured out the hard way a long time ago that there were only two paths when it comes to "fundraiser" that really work out for everyone in the end.  Either i get paid full price, or i do it for free.  Anything in the middle just leads to sore feelings, usually on both sides, as both sides think they are the doing the other a favor and neither agree to just how MUCH of a favor they are giving/receiving.

This is not meant as a slight to anyone that does otherwise of course.  Just my personal policy.

Bingo.

I figured this out years ago when I was working in LA and Hollywood with people who tried to convince me I needed to "pay my dues" by working for peanuts and handouts. Now I work for a fair price or I'll work for free but I'll never work for cheap.

The big two benefits:

I don't devaluing myself because someone isn't willing to compensate me fairly for the job at hand

I have to be doing well enough financially to afford to be generous
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Brian Jojade

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Re: Fundraiser losses....
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2019, 12:56:35 am »

You are running a business.  You have set prices for the services you offer.  The price you charge should have zero to do with the client's ability to pay.  If they can't afford it, why should you be obligated to provide it?

I used to do stuff for cheap or free to try and help out. NO MORE.  My prices are pretty much set in stone.  Now, if there's a cause that I believe in and am willing to write a check to donate to, I'll do just that.  But the thing is, it doesn't matter if they choose me for production or not.  My support for a non profit should have nothing to do with their willingness to hire me, should it?


On another note, if you were to 'donate' $1500 in production services, you MIGHT get a thank you, or a mention.  However, if someone wrote a $1500 donation check, they end up being paraded around on a pedistal as a hero of the event.  Keep that in mind when you decide to give away your services!


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Brian Jojade

Erik Jerde

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Re: Fundraiser losses....
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2019, 01:05:20 am »

Iím doing an event next Wednesday for free.  Iím only doing it free because itís an organization my wife and I already provide very significant support to separate from my professional interests.  Also, I was free that day and didnít expect to get any work then anyways.  I wonít work free for anyone who I donít already have a support relationship with separate from business.  I definitely wonít ask anyone else to work for free.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Fundraiser losses....
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2019, 01:09:14 am »

On another note, if you were to 'donate' $1500 in production services, you MIGHT get a thank you, or a mention.  However, if someone wrote a $1500 donation check, they end up being paraded around on a pedistal as a hero of the event.  Keep that in mind when you decide to give away your services!

^^^ THIS ^^^ RIGHT ^^^ HERE ^^^

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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Tim Hite

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Re: Fundraiser losses....
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2019, 01:22:53 am »

On another note, if you were to 'donate' $1500 in production services, you MIGHT get a thank you, or a mention.  However, if someone wrote a $1500 donation check, they end up being paraded around on a pedistal as a hero of the event.  Keep that in mind when you decide to give away your services!

Arrrrgh. Two organizations in my valley have done this to me. Didn't even mention that others were getting "sponsorship" advertising packages.

OTOH another organizations out here makes certain that if I do something nice for their event, I'm included at the top tier of the list of supporters.
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Luke Geis

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Re: Fundraiser losses....
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2019, 03:59:14 am »

I used to be of more help to the " fundraiser " events, but I got burned too many times. You only have to give a $1k deduction and be told you would have banner space, shout-outs, and perks a few times before you realize all they want is to get everything for free and make enough money to pay the salaries of those who are actually fully employed at the office. IF....... anything is left after all that, the actual needs might get fulfilled. And I didn't get asked for a logo, never got my huge thanks and my parking space was a mile away.....

I have come to a couple of new rules. If there is a caterer, I get full pop just like they do. If the caterer is getting paid for all the food, then I should get paid to be sure that you get all your ever so needed sound. If the caterer is giving a sizable donation ( RARE, VERY RARE ) I will also meet somewhere in the middle. I too NEVER discount labor, I and my compatriots get paid for our time, the equipment I can flex on.

I truly love to help, but I also don't like being taken advantage of. Unfortunately, I have been taken advantage of a few too many times and I have to be stern. I'm fair and I won't gilp the event, but it has to be fair for vendors too. Flowers, food, photography, and event space is not cheap; production should not be either.

And I will confirm that you cannot do an in-kind donation on your invoice and write it off. You have to do a full price invoice, get paid and then pay back the agreed upon difference as a separate transaction in order to write it off. It's stupid, but it also makes sense. It can't be argued that you wrote a $1k check that was cashed by X benefactor and that is what makes the donation real.
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Chris Hindle

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Re: Fundraiser losses....
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2019, 08:18:09 am »

I don't do "freebee's"
If I feel generous to a particular cause, I'll write a check.
I will likely give a little break on the cost, but I make sure "they" understand I'm bringing 80 grand of gear, in a truck that cost me 30 grand, and needs fuel and maintenance. And of course, over 30 years of experience in making "these things" work - from a production point of view.
They either need my contribution, or they can look elsewhere.

Many times I've been called the day after an event I passed on, to get booked for the following year.... At my price......

When I see organizers pulling up in Lexus, Benz, Porsche and other assorted hob-nob, they're making money. Why shouldn't I ?

As I said, IF i want to support something, I'll write a check.
Chris.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 12:19:22 pm by Chris Hindle »
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Ya, Whatever. Just throw a '57 on it, and get off my stage.

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Fundraiser losses....
¬ę Reply #29 on: September 10, 2019, 08:18:09 am ¬Ľ


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