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[Robert Lunceford]

I looked at other posts here about the SM80M but I didn't find anything that specifically answered this question:
If a SM80M (as opposed to a SM80) is being used for SOS duty for small outdoor shows, typically community events with live bands, bag chairs, in the street less than 600 people (just trying to give a good picture). What would be the advantages and/or disadvantages based on this type use. Another forum member mentioned the SM80M as an option as a SOS and it really peaked my curiosity.

To actually answer your question...... If you are going to use them as mains for 600 people, you want the SM80. You will need subwoofers for full range reproduction. Even though the SM80M is pole mountable, it was designed to be a floor monitor. The SM80 is the better choice for FOH duties.

[Mark Scrivener]

<snip>

What I did not realize much earlier in my career is how much easier it is to work with Nice Stuff.  Not in a snobby way but because those bigger price tags tend to reflect a significant difference in audible performance as well as a "system-oriented design" approach where all models are meant to work and play together in a complimentary way.
<snip>

Yep, I totally get that aspect. I spend much more time running a recording studio than I do working with live sound, and I totally hear you on how top tier gear just makes things easier. Even though the cheap knock off import stuff is getting seriously good, it almost always comes with problems that will bite you at some point. "A" list gear has made my recording studio run like clockwork, made it easy to get great results, and ultimately brought me more clients. I would expect live sound to be no different. Which I guess is what prompted my question, trying to understand the pitfalls of using "prosumer" powered speaker boxes in small to medium sized events. It is starting to make sense. :-)

Thanks!
Mark

[Douglas R. Allen]

Please excuse my dumb question, but the passive SM80/SM80M appears to be about 2-3x the cost of the top powered box offerings from Yamaha, JBL, EV, etc, and that doesn't include the cost of a power amp. I realize Danley is more "real pro" gear and the others are more "prosumer", but what does one actually get for that money? Is the sound quality really that much better? Is the SPL significantly higher?

I certainly understand where companies like Danley come in for larger systems, installations, big touring rigs, etc. but I'm trying to understand the "value proposition" of these higher end offerings when it comes to small SOS over subs type systems.

Many thanks,
Mark

Mark;
 
  Remember also as you go up the food chain to get your full money's worth you have to now look at the whole system.  You'll want a desk that is of the same quality. Direct boxes, Microphones , the source it self. A $40 dollar microphone will sound like a $40 dollar microphone. No more duct tape of the drum heads or poor sounding monitors , side fills etc. as they too will reduce the overall sound quality.
  Most people feel changing speakers will give you the greatest improvement (or lesser improvement with the wrong speaker) in a system. This will hold true so long as what is going into this system is top notch to begin with. As you said to justify the expense you have to look at the whole picture. What would you do with this money if you kept your current speaker system and used it on the rest of your system instead? Its always a tough call unless your spending someone else's money. 

Kindest regards;
Douglas R. Allen

[Steve Crump]

To actually answer your question...... If you are going to use them as mains for 600 people, you want the SM80. You will need subwoofers for full range reproduction. Even though the SM80M is pole mountable, it was designed to be a floor monitor. The SM80 is the better choice for FOH duties.

Robert,

I really felt like the SM80 was the ultimate answer, but I have never heard the Danley system. I still have a little paranoia over some comments about a "dip or hole" in the low mids and I thought the SM80M may be some what of an answer to that. But, I also had a good guess if that was the answer, then why not just build one cabinet and not two different cabinets. And also there would be more comments online about using the SM80M for FOH.

Most of the stuff I do is small, the largest crowd we have ever had outdoors was 400 (ticketed event, so the number was easy to track). So, I feel sure either product would work great for my use, but I want to get the best product for the intended use, for the amount money that I am willing to spend. Who knows the next crowd might be 600...

Ultimately the system I have works fine, I am just wanting to try something different. I really feel like with Ivan's presence here and with so many SM80 users contributing here that for me it would be a good choice, not to mention with Danley only being down the road from me, service should be great...lol

[Kevin Maxwell]

Robert,

I really felt like the SM80 was the ultimate answer, but I have never heard the Danley system. I still have a little paranoia over some comments about a "dip or hole" in the low mids and I thought the SM80M may be some what of an answer to that. But, I also had a good guess if that was the answer, then why not just build one cabinet and not two different cabinets. And also there would be more comments online about using the SM80M for FOH.

Most of the stuff I do is small, the largest crowd we have ever had outdoors was 400 (ticketed event, so the number was easy to track). So, I feel sure either product would work great for my use, but I want to get the best product for the intended use, for the amount money that I am willing to spend. Who knows the next crowd might be 600...

Ultimately the system I have works fine, I am just wanting to try something different. I really feel like with Ivan's presence here and with so many SM80 users contributing here that for me it would be a good choice, not to mention with Danley only being down the road from me, service should be great...lol

If they are just down the road from you be sure to get in touch with them about having them demonstrate the speakers for you and they can answer your questions. They have always been very helpful when I talked to them on the phone.

[Nathan Riddle]

Some photos I saw recently of SM80Ms had 4 fly points in each end of the cabinet. Maybe Ivan can confirm if they have added flyware to new production.

Just had this convo over at DSLUG.

Their new literature has fly points. That's a lot of CAD work to get it wrong.

[Nathan Riddle]

If they are just down the road from you be sure to get in touch with them about having them demonstrate the speakers for you and they can answer your questions. They have always been very helpful when I talked to them on the phone.

The problem with demonstrations at their HQ is they are in an industrial/commercial district and playing the speakers loudly to see how they behave just isn't possible without bothering the neighbors.

Thanks everyone for all the insight on the design differences between the two cabinets, it has been real enlightening. But, my question is simply, in a SOS situation is there any advantage in performance when using the SM80?

I am leaning toward the SM80M, but I had to ask.

I had this discussion over in the FB DSLUG.

The answer is group delay or aligning with subs is much easier with a sealed box.
There are other small advantages. Unloading driver is more difficult.

Please excuse my dumb question, but the passive SM80/SM80M appears to be about 2-3x the cost of the top powered box offerings from Yamaha, JBL, EV, etc, and that doesn't include the cost of a power amp. I realize Danley is more "real pro" gear and the others are more "prosumer", but what does one actually get for that money? Is the sound quality really that much better? Is the SPL significantly higher?

I certainly understand where companies like Danley come in for larger systems, installations, big touring rigs, etc. but I'm trying to understand the "value proposition" of these higher end offerings when it comes to small SOS over subs type systems.

Many thanks,
Mark

From the conversation on DSLUG a user told me the SM80 is better sounding and gets just as loud as 3x VRX912 with slightly less low extension.

VRX are $12k for 6 units @ $2k (2500MAP, so decent dealer pricing) powered.

SM80 are 6k for 2 units @ 3.2kea (3600MSRP so could probably do better) not powered.
Amp = PLD 4.5 on low-end = $2.2k (But this is a system and I suggest DNA amps)
$8.6k total

So you've saved money and gone up in sound quality, fewer speakers and wires to run/move.

[Bob Stone]

From the conversation on DSLUG a user told me the SM80 is better sounding and gets just as loud as 3x VRX912 with slightly less low extension.

VRX are $12k for 6 units @ $2k (2500MAP, so decent dealer pricing) powered.

SM80 are 6k for 2 units @ 3.2kea (3600MSRP so could probably do better) not powered.
Amp = PLD 4.5 on low-end = $2.2k (But this is a system and I suggest DNA amps)
$8.6k total

So you've saved money and gone up in sound quality, fewer speakers and wires to run/move.

You've lost flexibility in deployment though and brand name recognition (which can win clients).

Also, I wonder how much Danley kool-aid has been bought on this forum...I have a hard time believing that the SM80, a single 12" 400rms box that is rated only 128db continuous and +/- 3db at 140hz is really as capable as THREE VRX boxes which has 3 times the radiating area, 6 times the power handling, and a couple db more rated output PER BOX. Sure JBL can exaggerate and Danley could be conservative, but physics only go so far, even with horn loaded stuff....it's not like the SM80 is physically much bigger than a single VRX to really take advantage of the capabilities of a horn in the lower octaves.

[Nathan Riddle]

You've lost flexibility in deployment though and brand name recognition (which can win clients).

Also, I wonder how much Danley kool-aid has been bought on this forum...I have a hard time believing that the SM80, a single 12" 400rms box that is rated only 128db continuous and +/- 3db at 140hz is really as capable as THREE VRX boxes which has 3 times the radiating area, 6 times the power handling, and a couple db more rated output PER BOX. Sure JBL can exaggerate and Danley could be conservative, but physics only go so far, even with horn loaded stuff....it's not like the SM80 is physically much bigger than a single VRX to really take advantage of the capabilities of a horn in the lower octaves.

At the level SM80's are geared towards I doubt you'd lose any clients due to brand recognition.

Honestly, I'm skeptical too. I'm just parroting what a user who uses both has said. I can point you to the source.
I'm inclined to agree with him though having played with SM80 & listened to VRX (not A/B).

[John L Nobile]

I'm inclined to agree with him though having played with SM80 & listened to VRX (not A/B).

I'm inclined to agree for the same reasons. And after hearing VRX's I don't think I'd want to mix or listen to them at 1/2 the level an SM80 can reach.

[ProSoundWeb Community]