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Author Topic: Opinions on EAW Radius RSX208L and Martin WPM for church  (Read 693 times)

Matt Edmonds

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Re: Opinions on EAW Radius RSX208L and Martin WPM for church
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2019, 06:51:21 pm »

We have several RSX208L in our inventory and we really like them. No insight on how they compare to the Martin as they weren't on the market yet when we purchased. Easy set up, built in DSP is a breeze to tune, plenty of power on tap, rock solid for every event we've used them on. For an install I might shy away from something self-powered as electronics are more likely to go out than drivers, but that's just me. At least IMO.

I would agree with others that Danley could probably provide a better sounding and more cost-effective deployment than most of the other options listed. Installs are their bread and butter and their catalog reflects that. I've been in several buildings and attended events where Danley was used and it's always a treat.

Thanks for the feedback. From what Iíve read, I donít think we would be disappointed with the EAWís. And probably just as happy with those as the Martin or any others in that league. But itís the things like self powered vs non-powered, that I want to make sure weíre considering. Overall I have no doubts in the companies ability to install or tune any system we go with. Iíve seen EASE coverage plots for all the systems weíre looking at (except the KLA, which I wish we did, so I could show pastor why they donít fit our room). As accurate as Iím sure they can be, theyíre still theoretical until the gears actually in the room. And canít speak for the quality of the sound.

We have considered the implications of having a self powered array. At least to the best of my ability. The installer that is likely to get the job and I, have talked about that to some extent. He says the EAW are some of the better ones to work on, but over all they are more difficult than a non powered array. But also said the support from either EAW or Martin has always been superb. And he hasnít had many issues with either.

And as far as Danley goes, weíve actually had two companies propose them. And theyíve been around the same price and not really more cost effective. The two designs were very similar, with one swapping to of them SH96HOís for the regular SH96. And maybe one less sub. Iíd have to recheck. But the lower priced one was just barely less than the EAW proposal. And the higher priced one was just over the Martin proposal. So that plus pastor not being a fan, and less than stellar impressions by others at the church, and unfortunately theyíre very unlikely to be the system that is chosen.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2019, 06:54:45 pm by Matt Edmonds »
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Matt Edmonds

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Re: Opinions on EAW Radius RSX208L and Martin WPM for church
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2019, 07:54:54 pm »

How did you demo them?  The line arrays, more than the point source option, will have to be flown and optimized for the room.

The integration is really more important than the particular vendor.  You relationship with the vendor is the key.  Sonically (except the KLA, it's not even in the same class) the EAW, Martin and Danley (many others too you could include) are all high quality gear that will give good service.  So many other vendors too like RCF, dbTech, FBT, Adamson, Meyer et al why is the field so narrow.

I certainly can sanitize and share a value matrix with you but you should already have your own points and how you are weighting them in the decision.

So far all the demos have been ground stacks of the speakers. With the exception kind of being the KLA. He had one or two of those on the ground with a sub, and then one up on some scaffolding. They've all been put just behind the center point on the stage facing the audience. (again except the KLA's which were to one side of the stage facing around around 4 o'clock if 12 was pointed at the back of the stage and the center of the audience being 6 o'clock). But none of them, did any kind of optimizing per se. They may have added a bit of parametric EQ through the boards, but nothing drastic.

I'm very happy with the guy that is likely to get the job. And he seems to have very good relationships with most if not all of the bigger brands out there. I've seen and heard his work, so again I don't think we'll miss with whichever of his systems we go with. I've seen the EASE diagrams, and am comfortable with the coverage and levels of the systems.

As far as options that we've discussed. We've talked to, I believe 5 different companies about options. Where we are, it's at least 100 miles to a city large enough to have companies to talk to. And I think we've talked to most of them within 150+ mile radius. And one is out of Washington state, but I knew the guy before he went to work for that company. Anyway we've told them to give us what all options they think will work well for us. We've never asked to use a specific brand, or excluded a brand.

Company 1 is the one pushing the KLA, and pastor's "friend". That's the only reason his proposal is still technically in the running.

Company 2 is a national company that proposed the higher priced Danley system. He said he would price match any other proposals, but really only thinks the Danley would work in our room. Being as his Danley system was already one of the more expensive ones, I took that as, "anything else I price match will probably cost as much or more." So they're on the outside looking in.

Company 3 is a national company that started out with a bang in the first meeting we had. They brought in a team of people and really had some good things to say. I think we almost would have signed the contract that day, if they would have had one. They said they would give us good, better, best options for sound. Then they sent us a proposal for RCF that is the second highest proposal we've seen. Never mentioned any other options and then slowly quit communicating with us. So they kind of ruled themselves out.

Company 4 was also very similar to company 3, in that we really really like them and believe in what they do. It's only been a rep that we've talked to, so he maybe didn't wow us as much at the first meeting. However he has been fantastic. He's made several trips to talk to us. He did the most thorough check of what we already have to see what could possibly be reused (nothing, but I did appreciate him checking even after I told him nothing would be reusable). Their proposal was also for an RCF system. However it ended up being the highest priced one of all. So unfortunately, that one is not likely to be the choice. However it will be presented to the board. That's how much we like him and their vision.

Company 5 is the one we will probably go with. He has a smaller local company. He started as the other Danley proposal. But told us he could get anything. At first I thought company 4 was going to be the choice, but started talking to him again when I realized we might end up with the KLA system from pastor's friend since the price difference was so great. So he came back with the EAW and Martin system proposals. And it's worked out well, as his prices have ended up being really fantastic. Plus he's been very responsive and open to any questions or ideas we've had. I asked about Meyer, but he says he's not personally a huge fan. He doesn't deny they're fantastic, but at least to him, can be fatiguing when listening to them for extended periods. So only goes with them, when the client wants Meyer. He also mentioned looking at L'Acoustic and dB Tech, but said in his opinion, for the difference in price, they're not that much better sounding than the Martins. But if we thought we had the budget he would gladly provide a proposal for those. However if they're more than the Martin (and he said they will be), they're not likely to get approved. So I don't want to waste his time.

So we obviously don't have proposals from every speaker out there, but have allowed the companies to give us any option they wanted. In fact company 3 said their "best" option would probably be Meyer, but they ended up only providing the RCF option.

My point being we haven't intended to narrow the field. In fact I've tried to exhaust all the options I can find, short of emailing every integrator/speaker manufacturer I find on the internet. Do you feel like there is an option we are missing out on? I'll happily ask company 5 if they can look at those for us. And if he can't, I'll contact the company directly and find out who their local rep is and who they recommend us talking to. I don't want us to miss out on a compelling option. However I do feel like we've narrowed it down to options that everyone will be happy with.

I guess I'm just trying to get insight, if there's something that will make us happier in the long term, that we're not considering. Again I think we'll be happy with either. Just trying to not over look something. Again thanks. :)
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Nathan Riddle

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Re: Opinions on EAW Radius RSX208L and Martin WPM for church
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2019, 10:48:59 pm »

So far all the demos have been ground stacks of the speakers. With the exception kind of being the KLA. He had one or two of those on the ground with a sub, and then one up on some scaffolding. They've all been put just behind the center point on the stage facing the audience. (again except the KLA's which were to one side of the stage facing around around 4 o'clock if 12 was pointed at the back of the stage and the center of the audience being 6 o'clock). But none of them, did any kind of optimizing per se. They may have added a bit of parametric EQ through the boards, but nothing drastic.

I'm very happy with the guy that is likely to get the job. And he seems to have very good relationships with most if not all of the bigger brands out there. I've seen and heard his work, so again I don't think we'll miss with whichever of his systems we go with. I've seen the EASE diagrams, and am comfortable with the coverage and levels of the systems.

As far as options that we've discussed. We've talked to, I believe 5 different companies about options. Where we are, it's at least 100 miles to a city large enough to have companies to talk to. And I think we've talked to most of them within 150+ mile radius. And one is out of Washington state, but I knew the guy before he went to work for that company. Anyway we've told them to give us what all options they think will work well for us. We've never asked to use a specific brand, or excluded a brand.

Company 1 is the one pushing the KLA, and pastor's "friend". That's the only reason his proposal is still technically in the running.

Company 2 is a national company that proposed the higher priced Danley system. He said he would price match any other proposals, but really only thinks the Danley would work in our room. Being as his Danley system was already one of the more expensive ones, I took that as, "anything else I price match will probably cost as much or more." So they're on the outside looking in.

Company 3 is a national company that started out with a bang in the first meeting we had. They brought in a team of people and really had some good things to say. I think we almost would have signed the contract that day, if they would have had one. They said they would give us good, better, best options for sound. Then they sent us a proposal for RCF that is the second highest proposal we've seen. Never mentioned any other options and then slowly quit communicating with us. So they kind of ruled themselves out.

Company 4 was also very similar to company 3, in that we really really like them and believe in what they do. It's only been a rep that we've talked to, so he maybe didn't wow us as much at the first meeting. However he has been fantastic. He's made several trips to talk to us. He did the most thorough check of what we already have to see what could possibly be reused (nothing, but I did appreciate him checking even after I told him nothing would be reusable). Their proposal was also for an RCF system. However it ended up being the highest priced one of all. So unfortunately, that one is not likely to be the choice. However it will be presented to the board. That's how much we like him and their vision.

Company 5 is the one we will probably go with. He has a smaller local company. He started as the other Danley proposal. But told us he could get anything. At first I thought company 4 was going to be the choice, but started talking to him again when I realized we might end up with the KLA system from pastor's friend since the price difference was so great. So he came back with the EAW and Martin system proposals. And it's worked out well, as his prices have ended up being really fantastic. Plus he's been very responsive and open to any questions or ideas we've had. I asked about Meyer, but he says he's not personally a huge fan. He doesn't deny they're fantastic, but at least to him, can be fatiguing when listening to them for extended periods. So only goes with them, when the client wants Meyer. He also mentioned looking at L'Acoustic and dB Tech, but said in his opinion, for the difference in price, they're not that much better sounding than the Martins. But if we thought we had the budget he would gladly provide a proposal for those. However if they're more than the Martin (and he said they will be), they're not likely to get approved. So I don't want to waste his time.

So we obviously don't have proposals from every speaker out there, but have allowed the companies to give us any option they wanted. In fact company 3 said their "best" option would probably be Meyer, but they ended up only providing the RCF option.

My point being we haven't intended to narrow the field. In fact I've tried to exhaust all the options I can find, short of emailing every integrator/speaker manufacturer I find on the internet. Do you feel like there is an option we are missing out on? I'll happily ask company 5 if they can look at those for us. And if he can't, I'll contact the company directly and find out who their local rep is and who they recommend us talking to. I don't want us to miss out on a compelling option. However I do feel like we've narrowed it down to options that everyone will be happy with.

I guess I'm just trying to get insight, if there's something that will make us happier in the long term, that we're not considering. Again I think we'll be happy with either. Just trying to not over look something. Again thanks. :)



Looks like you've done this the correct way!

Sorry if we seemed a bit peevish, but we're accustomed to "I bought this 'insert guitar center speaker' and had my friend install it can you help us" and "we want a system installed to seat 1500 people at RAWK volumes for $500, oh and we'll only accept Meyer and it's gotta be installed by our pastors wife's brother. (I write this trying to be comical, not mean spirited).

Anyways, I'd narrow it down to 3 integrators (tell one of them you're 99% sure you're going with them). And a single design. Say bring me your best quote.

Go with installer 5 and the Martin or EAW system. You'll be happy and you won't waste any installers times or your own spinning wheels.


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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Opinions on EAW Radius RSX208L and Martin WPM for church
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2019, 11:31:09 pm »

So far all the demos have been ground stacks of the speakers. With the exception kind of being the KLA. He had one or two of those on the ground with a sub, and then one up on some scaffolding. They've all been put just behind the center point on the stage facing the audience. (again except the KLA's which were to one side of the stage facing around around 4 o'clock if 12 was pointed at the back of the stage and the center of the audience being 6 o'clock). But none of them, did any kind of optimizing per se. They may have added a bit of parametric EQ through the boards, but nothing drastic.

I'm very happy with the guy that is likely to get the job. And he seems to have very good relationships with most if not all of the bigger brands out there. I've seen and heard his work, so again I don't think we'll miss with whichever of his systems we go with. I've seen the EASE diagrams, and am comfortable with the coverage and levels of the systems.

As far as options that we've discussed. We've talked to, I believe 5 different companies about options. Where we are, it's at least 100 miles to a city large enough to have companies to talk to. And I think we've talked to most of them within 150+ mile radius. And one is out of Washington state, but I knew the guy before he went to work for that company. Anyway we've told them to give us what all options they think will work well for us. We've never asked to use a specific brand, or excluded a brand.

Company 1 is the one pushing the KLA, and pastor's "friend". That's the only reason his proposal is still technically in the running.

Company 2 is a national company that proposed the higher priced Danley system. He said he would price match any other proposals, but really only thinks the Danley would work in our room. Being as his Danley system was already one of the more expensive ones, I took that as, "anything else I price match will probably cost as much or more." So they're on the outside looking in.

Company 3 is a national company that started out with a bang in the first meeting we had. They brought in a team of people and really had some good things to say. I think we almost would have signed the contract that day, if they would have had one. They said they would give us good, better, best options for sound. Then they sent us a proposal for RCF that is the second highest proposal we've seen. Never mentioned any other options and then slowly quit communicating with us. So they kind of ruled themselves out.

Company 4 was also very similar to company 3, in that we really really like them and believe in what they do. It's only been a rep that we've talked to, so he maybe didn't wow us as much at the first meeting. However he has been fantastic. He's made several trips to talk to us. He did the most thorough check of what we already have to see what could possibly be reused (nothing, but I did appreciate him checking even after I told him nothing would be reusable). Their proposal was also for an RCF system. However it ended up being the highest priced one of all. So unfortunately, that one is not likely to be the choice. However it will be presented to the board. That's how much we like him and their vision.

Company 5 is the one we will probably go with. He has a smaller local company. He started as the other Danley proposal. But told us he could get anything. At first I thought company 4 was going to be the choice, but started talking to him again when I realized we might end up with the KLA system from pastor's friend since the price difference was so great. So he came back with the EAW and Martin system proposals. And it's worked out well, as his prices have ended up being really fantastic. Plus he's been very responsive and open to any questions or ideas we've had. I asked about Meyer, but he says he's not personally a huge fan. He doesn't deny they're fantastic, but at least to him, can be fatiguing when listening to them for extended periods. So only goes with them, when the client wants Meyer. He also mentioned looking at L'Acoustic and dB Tech, but said in his opinion, for the difference in price, they're not that much better sounding than the Martins. But if we thought we had the budget he would gladly provide a proposal for those. However if they're more than the Martin (and he said they will be), they're not likely to get approved. So I don't want to waste his time.

So we obviously don't have proposals from every speaker out there, but have allowed the companies to give us any option they wanted. In fact company 3 said their "best" option would probably be Meyer, but they ended up only providing the RCF option.

My point being we haven't intended to narrow the field. In fact I've tried to exhaust all the options I can find, short of emailing every integrator/speaker manufacturer I find on the internet. Do you feel like there is an option we are missing out on? I'll happily ask company 5 if they can look at those for us. And if he can't, I'll contact the company directly and find out who their local rep is and who they recommend us talking to. I don't want us to miss out on a compelling option. However I do feel like we've narrowed it down to options that everyone will be happy with.

I guess I'm just trying to get insight, if there's something that will make us happier in the long term, that we're not considering. Again I think we'll be happy with either. Just trying to not over look something. Again thanks. :)

Like Nathan I too see church's waste so much money because of "pastor's friends" and as he pointed out members donating money trying to do the design.

Being a local company I am predisposed to working local.  Sounds like you have a team that you are aligned with.  That's really more important that the gear they put in.  That being said Martin vs. EAF that's a real tough one.   Both make great stuff.

Just to let you know what a battle this is my home church built a new facility, three video walls, nice new building blah blah.  Anyway they bought 4 KLA's aside because the donor was a QSC fan (I have a large QSC rental inventory too, not KLA's though) the congregation thought the 4 boxes hung too low and they put 2 side by side, it's sound like total ass.  I joked at Easter with my whole extended family I was going to climb up and turn two off!  Anyway I have nothing to do with production at my church home and am only cordial to the tech director.   

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Nathan Riddle

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Re: Opinions on EAW Radius RSX208L and Martin WPM for church
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2019, 12:19:59 am »

Like Nathan I too see church's waste so much money because of "pastor's friends" and as he pointed out members donating money trying to do the design.

Being a local company I am predisposed to working local.  Sounds like you have a team that you are aligned with.  That's really more important that the gear they put in.  That being said Martin vs. EAF that's a real tough one.   Both make great stuff.

Just to let you know what a battle this is my home church built a new facility, three video walls, nice new building blah blah.  Anyway they bought 4 KLA's aside because the donor was a QSC fan (I have a large QSC rental inventory too, not KLA's though) the congregation thought the 4 boxes hung too low and they put 2 side by side, it's sound like total ass.  I joked at Easter with my whole extended family I was going to climb up and turn two off!  Anyway I have nothing to do with production at my church home and am only cordial to the tech director.

Jeeeez. Ewwwww. Sounds like you should "get involved" you have gifts...use 'em! ;) Paddling up stream builds arm strength  ;D
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Opinions on EAW Radius RSX208L and Martin WPM for church
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2019, 12:26:23 am »

Jeeeez. Ewwwww. Sounds like you should "get involved" you have gifts...use 'em! ;) Paddling up stream builds arm strength  ;D

Hmmm...point taken...
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Matt Edmonds

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Re: Opinions on EAW Radius RSX208L and Martin WPM for church
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2019, 12:51:40 am »



Looks like you've done this the correct way!

Sorry if we seemed a bit peevish, but we're accustomed to "I bought this 'insert guitar center speaker' and had my friend install it can you help us" and "we want a system installed to seat 1500 people at RAWK volumes for $500, oh and we'll only accept Meyer and it's gotta be installed by our pastors wife's brother. (I write this trying to be comical, not mean spirited).

Anyways, I'd narrow it down to 3 integrators (tell one of them you're 99% sure you're going with them). And a single design. Say bring me your best quote.

Go with installer 5 and the Martin or EAW system. You'll be happy and you won't waste any installers times or your own spinning wheels.

Cool. Glad to know. I was definitely trying to make sure we cover all the bases. I want our church to have a system that isnít lacking. This will be the first time in its almost 40 years of existence that it will have a proper sound system. So Iím excited. :D

And no worries, I never thought anyone had an off putting attitude.   I get it. I also work as a motorcycle mechanic. And often times someone will come in and ask me a tech question. Iíll spend 30 mins explaining the answer. Then theyíll respond with, thatís not what my cousin said. Or the guy on YouTube said this.

And then Iíve seen it many many many times in churches, where things are bought and replaced 4 times before they do it right. Heck thatís essentially what my church has been doing since before I started helping with sound. And even when I started helping with that, we had a member who was doing video, and purchased/ donated a bunch of equipment. Itís hard for the church to say no to free, but itís a mess. Heís not there anymore and so itís next on our list after getting the sound sorted. So thatís definitely what Iím trying to avoid.

Anyway thanks again to all. I feel like either of the two most likely options will be winners. Iíll report back once the decision has been finalized.
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Matt Edmonds

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Re: Opinions on EAW Radius RSX208L and Martin WPM for church
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2019, 06:50:15 pm »

Well to anyone interested, the votes have been cast, and we are going with the EAW system. The vote actually happened a week or so ago, and install should happen next week. I appreciate the helpful replies and guidance. I may try to post some pics.

And one last part to the story. After the board had voted, pastor mentioned he wasn't looking forward to calling "his friend" and letting him know. But a couple of days later I get a phone call from Pastor. He had talked to his friend (and apparently pastor told him exactly what we're going with), and his friend called Pastor back and told him something wasn't right. There was no way in the world he or anyone else could buy the speakers, let alone install them, for the price we were getting. So something was fishy. At this point I almost admire his dedication to undermining every option we looked at. Anyway I priced out the speakers online. He's wrong, and apparently pays more than I would have to, without me calling in and asking for (and probably getting) a better price.

Anyway again Thanks.
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Re: Opinions on EAW Radius RSX208L and Martin WPM for church
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