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Author Topic: Is the Digico mixer ( SD), the new PM-4000 ?  (Read 981 times)

Helge A Bentsen

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Re: Is the Digico mixer ( SD), the new PM-4000 ?
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2019, 03:55:56 pm »

Probably not.  We have zero Midas DLxxx i/o.  Those will add $10k-15k to the cost and at that point we'd just buy the Avid S6L.

You should be able to pick them up used for cheap.
This week I've seen an increase in used Pro-series and DL interfaces on the second hand marked.
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Nathan Riddle

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Re: Is the Digico mixer ( SD), the new PM-4000 ?
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2019, 09:07:32 pm »

The dl32 is supposed to work with it, hahaha
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Caleb Dueck

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Re: Is the Digico mixer ( SD), the new PM-4000 ?
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2019, 10:10:39 pm »

The dl32 is supposed to work with it, hahaha

If Tim is looking at S6L, Digico, etc - I'm willing to be there won't be any DL32's on stage. 

Personal preference for desks seems to mirror both how the engineer thinks, as well as what he/she learned on.  Someone who started mixing on an LS9 or M7CL - likely would drool over a PM7/PM10.  Someone who started on an SD8 - likely will look at SD12 or SD7.  Someone who has a lot of experience on an iLive - can't wait to get a dLive. 

Along with that - some engineers like lots of power and flexibility, and will take the time to master that power.  For those, there's Digico and SSL.  Others like a more simple approach, "fewer variable to go wrong", so there's Yamaha.  I'm generalizing, but you get the point.  Others like ease of use and don't have a deep ingrained history with any one brand - there's dLive.  Others have a lot of experience on the X/M32, and like it - which isn't a tiny group - so there's HeritageD, coming out before too long in smaller sizes. 

I happen to like the general layout of SSL, Digico, and the dLive.  Not so much for Yamaha, not much experience with Avid.  If I were mixing, I'd take the time to learn the functionality inside and out, and gravitate toward a more 'complex' desk.  I also know, as Tim points out often - that whatever flavor of kool-aid I prefer - means nothing compared to the bands writing the checks and what they prefer.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Is the Digico mixer ( SD), the new PM-4000 ?
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2019, 12:50:20 am »

If Tim is looking at S6L, Digico, etc - I'm willing to be there won't be any DL32's on stage. 

Personal preference for desks seems to mirror both how the engineer thinks, as well as what he/she learned on.  Someone who started mixing on an LS9 or M7CL - likely would drool over a PM7/PM10.  Someone who started on an SD8 - likely will look at SD12 or SD7.  Someone who has a lot of experience on an iLive - can't wait to get a dLive. 

Along with that - some engineers like lots of power and flexibility, and will take the time to master that power.  For those, there's Digico and SSL.  Others like a more simple approach, "fewer variable to go wrong", so there's Yamaha.  I'm generalizing, but you get the point.  Others like ease of use and don't have a deep ingrained history with any one brand - there's dLive.  Others have a lot of experience on the X/M32, and like it - which isn't a tiny group - so there's HeritageD, coming out before too long in smaller sizes. 

I happen to like the general layout of SSL, Digico, and the dLive.  Not so much for Yamaha, not much experience with Avid.  If I were mixing, I'd take the time to learn the functionality inside and out, and gravitate toward a more 'complex' desk.  I also know, as Tim points out often - that whatever flavor of kool-aid I prefer - means nothing compared to the bands writing the checks and what they prefer.

I've got lots of hours on both Yamaha and Avid, much less on others.  The big deal for us is picking desks that are rider-acceptable that bands are expecting to find 'everywhere'.  We're off the hook for things like the PM10 Rivage/SSL/SD7 because the shows that *need* them will carry them and the considerable pile of kibbles and bits that are a part of the rig.  What will be the next big thing in the middle, middle-low price tier?  That's ideally where we'd be looking.

That said, we do not get rewarded for being early adopters at any price point.  We need desks for which the BE has a show file so that calls for a certain about of ubiquity.  The Avid Profile desks have been great in that regard, we just need a crystal ball to find their successor.

It might be fun to get a Heritage D demo and compare the DLxxx with DL32 for a golden ears reality check.  Passive split to each, match gain by nulling.  Restore polarity and then switch back and forth for the listening audience...
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Uwe Riemer2

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Re: Is the Digico mixer ( SD), the new PM-4000 ?
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2019, 08:53:43 am »

I've got lots of hours on both Yamaha and Avid, much less on others.  The big deal for us is picking desks that are rider-acceptable that bands are expecting to find 'everywhere'.  We're off the hook for things like the PM10 Rivage/SSL/SD7 because the shows that *need* them will carry them and the considerable pile of kibbles and bits that are a part of the rig.  What will be the next big thing in the middle, middle-low price tier?  That's ideally where we'd be looking.

That said, we do not get rewarded for being early adopters at any price point.  We need desks for which the BE has a show file so that calls for a certain about of ubiquity.  The Avid Profile desks have been great in that regard, we just need a crystal ball to find their successor.

It might be fun to get a Heritage D demo and compare the DLxxx with DL32 for a golden ears reality check.  Passive split to each, match gain by nulling.  Restore polarity and then switch back and forth for the listening audience...

Well the new kid on the block has a lot of potential to become the new "PM4000" or more acurate the new "Heritage" IMO, but it is at least 3 months too early to judge that.

Potential Pros:
- Daylights visibility of the screen, scribble strips and buttons
  there are a lot of desks out there doing not so well

- FX rack: seems more complete than others, but will the studio guys accept that or simply  ignore it.
Midas Delay Compensation works only for internal signal paths, one reason to use the inbuilt FX rack. ***

Recently had a sound woman with problems on the vocal path in her SD9, which she couldnt figure out how to solve it while the show was running.
To me and others it sounded clearly like phasing from summing two paths with different latencies
and to make this clear: she knows her shit usually

- the Cloud: the last time I saw an S6L setup, the FOH guy spent several hours to update both consoles and make his licences work again.
Luckily they got in at 9 am, not so lucky for me.

The Cloud could also speed up firmware development and elimination of bugs,
on the other hand to cite Mark Payne: what could possibly go wrong

Regarding the Preamp comparison: Do it, my opinion is already made up


Edit: *** If they are running a real FFT, channel AI might be able to measure external latencies
« Last Edit: September 04, 2019, 11:49:14 am by Uwe Riemer2 »
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Kevin Maxwell

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Re: Is the Digico mixer ( SD), the new PM-4000 ?
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2019, 09:01:55 am »

I've got lots of hours on both Yamaha and Avid, much less on others.  The big deal for us is picking desks that are rider-acceptable that bands are expecting to find 'everywhere'.  We're off the hook for things like the PM10 Rivage/SSL/SD7 because the shows that *need* them will carry them and the considerable pile of kibbles and bits that are a part of the rig.  What will be the next big thing in the middle, middle-low price tier?  That's ideally where we'd be looking.

That said, we do not get rewarded for being early adopters at any price point.  We need desks for which the BE has a show file so that calls for a certain about of ubiquity.  The Avid Profile desks have been great in that regard, we just need a crystal ball to find their successor.

It might be fun to get a Heritage D demo and compare the DLxxx with DL32 for a golden ears reality check.  Passive split to each, match gain by nulling.  Restore polarity and then switch back and forth for the listening audience...

The information from Midas is that the Heritage D only operates at 96k and I can't find anything on the DL32 indicating it operates at anything other then 48k.
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Nathan Riddle

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Re: Is the Digico mixer ( SD), the new PM-4000 ?
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2019, 09:13:53 am »

The information from Midas is that the Heritage D only operates at 96k and I can't find anything on the DL32 indicating it operates at anything other then 48k.

CM-1 cards are supposed to do SRC for it. Or so I glean from the FB group.

Most of it is hearsay though.

It might be fun to get a Heritage D demo and compare the DLxxx with DL32 for a golden ears reality check.  Passive split to each, match gain by nulling.  Restore polarity and then switch back and forth for the listening audience...

Please do, make it double-blind. I bet people can't tell the difference  ;)

If Tim is looking at S6L, Digico, etc - I'm willing to be there won't be any DL32's on stage. 

I agree. I was trying to be funny :P

Love the knowledge dump though! Keep 'em coming :)
« Last Edit: September 04, 2019, 10:08:24 am by Nathan Riddle »
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Robert Lofgren

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Re: Is the Digico mixer ( SD), the new PM-4000 ?
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2019, 09:25:43 am »

The midas $$$ uses hypermac while the x32/m32 does supermac so I donít see a way for the xm32 stageboxes to ever work with HD96 unless it can run 48k and supermac with some setting...

The information from Midas is that the Heritage D only operates at 96k and I can't find anything on the DL32 indicating it operates at anything other then 48k.
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Nathan Riddle

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Re: Is the Digico mixer ( SD), the new PM-4000 ?
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2019, 10:08:13 am »

The midas $$$ uses hypermac while the x32/m32 does supermac so I don’t see a way for the xm32 stageboxes to ever work with HD96 unless it can run 48k and supermac with some setting...

The main ports sure. There are CM-1 IO expansion slots.

tl;dr The KT card will clock down to 48k

https://www.klarkteknik.com/Categories/Klarkteknik/Signal-Processors/Network-Modules/KT-AES50/p/P0B4F#
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Re: Is the Digico mixer ( SD), the new PM-4000 ?
¬ę Reply #18 on: September 04, 2019, 10:08:13 am ¬Ľ


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