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Author Topic: PA upgrade recommendations please  (Read 8510 times)

Randall Cook

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PA upgrade recommendations please
« on: July 27, 2019, 09:35:44 pm »

Looking to possibly upgrade my mains.  Currently running passive 218 subs (3600w/cabinets) and KF650z tri-amped with UX8800, QSC powerlight amps. 
Considering moving to 21” powered subs, but also considering powered 18”s or double 18”.  Had several recommend the Yorkville LS2100P.  Would like to get the lower frequencies, but still maintain kick drum punch. 
As far as tops, I’d like to have clarity and output of the KF650z either similar or a little better.   Open to “array” tops.
The system gets used for regional acts at festivals, wedding receptions, larger clubs and events.  So it needs to be a little scaleable. 
Some current events I use 2 KF650Z per side and 4 double 18’s.   Wedding receptions I use half, so a single stack per side. 
They don’t have to be rider-friendly.  Just need good quality, clarity, and output for best price.  They get used a lot too! Lol!
« Last Edit: July 27, 2019, 11:12:26 pm by Randall Cook »
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Helge A Bentsen

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Re: PA upgrade recommendations please
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2019, 06:51:44 am »

Get four used SB1000z and a Powersoft K10 DSP.
Compact, loud and a lot of bang VS truck space.


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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: PA upgrade recommendations please
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2019, 08:52:19 am »

It's entirely possible that the SB1000z is lower-spec than the subs Randall is currently using. If the 3600w per 2x18" is the AES rating, then they'll be some top-end 18" drivers.
If the 3600w is a short-term peak rating, they'll be mid-spec - similar to those in the SB1000z.


Randall, we'll need makes/models of the current setup (subs and amps) before making recommendations.

Chris
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Rick Powell

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Re: PA upgrade recommendations please
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2019, 06:16:39 pm »

Randall, is it correct that you have 4 KF650’s with UX8800 processing, and 4 double 18 speakers in your arsenal? What I didn’t see is “what don’t you like about your current system”? More rig (higher dB or coverage), better sound quality, lighter weight? A change from 18” to 21” subs would not necessarily make a difference depending on the genre of music. And a sideways move just to be different usually winds up with the buyer losing money instead of gaining in the transaction.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2019, 06:26:57 pm by Rick Powell »
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Randall Cook

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Re: PA upgrade recommendations please
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2019, 03:39:02 pm »

I’ll try to answer your questions as best I can. 
Currently I can scale 1-2 per side KF650Z and QW218 depending on the gig.   UX8800 does all the processing.   M32 FOH.  DL16x2 snakes.   

KF650Z has the following amps:
PL325 horns
PL380 10” mids
PL380 15” low mids
4 bridged PL3400 (1 per QW218)

I’m mostly concerned with the subs; they’re just old and beat up.  I’ve replaced all the baskets in them over time.  I guess I just feel like it’s time to move on from them.  You can only patch, paint, repair things for so many years.  Lol!  I have bands asking for 21’s; I know they’re just looking for lower frequencies, not really the size of the speaker.   I mostly work with larger regional cover bands that have some triggered bass drops, “808 kicks”, and also some rock bands that want the punchy kick drum and some keyboards and samples that go low.   

Soooo... I might possibly consider 4 of the newer TH118XL.  The height seems more helpful in getting my current KF650Z up high enough with my bumper boxes.  Since I have the amps already, I thought that might be a good option.  Let me know what you think. 

Also, I’d consider possibly moving to SM80 or pairs of SH46. 

The Danley stuff seems like good option for mobility also. 

That said, I’m totally open to suggestions. 
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Jonathan Betts

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Re: PA upgrade recommendations please
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2019, 04:13:07 pm »

We moved from a KF 650 rig to the SM80 and couldn’t be happier. Just as much output and more clarity at a distance. It’s also easy to deploy.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2019, 04:25:35 pm by Jonathan Betts »
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Bill Hornibrook

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Re: PA upgrade recommendations please
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2019, 04:34:14 pm »

I have bands asking for 21’s; I know they’re just looking for lower frequencies, not really the size of the speaker. 
Have these bands actually used systems with 21s, or are they just shopping with their eyes? I actually have 21s with the same B&C driver as those Yorkvilles. Where they shine is mixing things like contemporary hip-hop with considerable sub 40 content - and where there's no concern for the punch of a kick, because there isn't one.

They'd probably work for bands (haven't tried it) but I don't think  they would have any advantage over 18s.

If your current subs are Peavey, practically anything you get will be a substantial upgrade. I'll leave specific recommendations to others.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: PA upgrade recommendations please
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2019, 05:00:31 pm »

Have these bands actually used systems with 21s, or are they just shopping with their eyes? I actually have 21s with the same B&C driver as those Yorkvilles. Where they shine is mixing things like contemporary hip-hop with considerable sub 40 content - and where there's no concern for the punch of a kick, because there isn't one.

They'd probably work for bands (haven't tried it) but I don't think  they would have any advantage over 18s.

If your current subs are Peavey, practically anything you get will be a substantial upgrade. I'll leave specific recommendations to others.

^^^ THIS (mostly).  The part that needs more:

The only thing wrong with QWave is the same thing wrong with the JBL SRX4719a - they're over 20 years old and transducers have advanced a lot.  Some pilot error, too, if patching and basket replacement are common things.

I think you're spot on, Bill, about the band listening with their eyes.  My Stagehand Superhero experience with arena-size rigs using 21" subs have been that the ground stacked 21s are used more as "infra", the 18" subs are flown adjacent to or behind the main hangs.  The one rig I heard where there was no "mid-sub" it sounded like you describe, no "punch" but plenty of bottom octave.  I suspect that could have been fixed but "not my circus" applies...

For Randall:  I'll plug the JTR Orbit Shifter, sight-unseen, based on reviews of LABsters I Truste®.  Depending on the program material you'll probably find one OS replaces 2-3 QWave (especially in the bottom half-ocatve).
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Randall Cook

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Re: PA upgrade recommendations please
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2019, 07:35:48 pm »

We moved from a KF 650 rig to the SM80 and couldn’t be happier. Just as much output and more clarity at a distance. It’s also easy to deploy.

Was this only for shows using 1 SM80/side?  I didn’t think two SM80 would compare to four KF650Z.  And I’m also assuming you can’t run two SM80 a side since they’re 80 degrees. 

That’s why I considered using SM80 for smaller shows and then later get four SH46 for larger shows. 

I can still use my KF650Z until I upgrade the tops. 

I just want to replace the subs first. 
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Randall Cook

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Re: PA upgrade recommendations please
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2019, 07:48:14 pm »

Yes, the band has played through 21’s.  They asked me to get them since I run their band a lot.  That said, I KNOW THEY WANT THE FREQUENCIES, not the 21”, so to speak.  That’s why I thought the TH118XL seemed like a good choice on paper.   The band respects my decisions, so I don’t have a problem offering them something different than they’re asking as long as it covers their real “wants/needs”. 
I just wanted to see what everyone here thought could be a little step up in quality and output that would help me offer some lower sub output/frequencies.   
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: PA upgrade recommendations please
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2019, 07:48:14 pm »


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