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Author Topic: Looking to upgrade my subs  (Read 1334 times)

Cameron M Gunn

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Looking to upgrade my subs
« on: July 27, 2019, 08:59:35 pm »

Hi all, I'm looking into upgrading my subwoofers and wanted to get some advice.

I stepped away from running sound for a few years and sold off most of my PA a while back. I've been getting back into it and have been getting by with the leftovers I had sitting in storage. Mainly doing shows of 150-250 with my gear and renting for anything larger. My subs are the weakest link in the system. I have 2 very old PAS Toc T2840b dual 18 subwoofers I got from a church that upgraded running off an I Tech 4000. I believe these are similar to Yamaha's SW218v. They work in terms of output for what I do, but only sound okay at best.

I normally run around 105dBC at FOH and 115-120dBC at the front row.

I'm looking at replacing them with the JBL SRX828sP. I have an opportunity to buy one new in box for $1300 from an install that fell through. I'd be starting out with 1 and adding a 2nd a few months down the road. Would 1 of the JBL's be able to get close in output to the 2 subs I have now? I don't mind taking a slight hit on output for a few months if it can get close. Right now I have nothing usable below 50Hz and if these are anything like my old SRX728s subs, that alone would be worth the switch.

Thanks!
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Luke Geis

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Re: Looking to upgrade my subs
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2019, 11:28:53 pm »

I think what you can hit those numbers. I feel that the box is truly capable of around 130db, so given the typical losses, you should be able to get right around those digits without working the sub too hard.
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Roland Clarke

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Re: Looking to upgrade my subs
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2019, 05:57:12 am »

Id second what Luke says.  The 828 is the best in its price range
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Tim Weaver

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Re: Looking to upgrade my subs
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2019, 09:58:14 am »

Yes.

The PAS Target series were not the greatest. A single passive 828 running from a bridged IT4000 would slay what you have now.

Also the powered 828 version would very much beat the PAS subs as well.


PAS had a "pro" series called the RS which was kinda OK for the time, but even then they were way down the list of what people wanted to use. They made some pretty decent Coaxial drivers and when put into a stage monitor they were pretty good. The mains were just so-so, and the subs were just not the greatest
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Looking to upgrade my subs
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2019, 12:09:23 pm »

PAS had the right ideas about time but transducer technology of the era has nothing on today's big cone woofers.  Either JBL product mentioned will be significantly better in both output and LF extension.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2019, 12:11:43 pm by Tim McCulloch »
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Cameron M Gunn

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Re: Looking to upgrade my subs
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2019, 12:50:16 am »

Thanks for the responses! Would there be a noticeable advantage in getting the passive version and using my I-Techs over the powered version? I do have a second I-Tech for when I add more subs. I'm able to get the powered version the same price as the passive version, so I'm considering going that route so I can leave the amp rack behind unless there's a good reason to stick with the passive/I Techs.

Yes.

The PAS Target series were not the greatest. A single passive 828 running from a bridged IT4000 would slay what you have now.

Also the powered 828 version would very much beat the PAS subs as well.


PAS had a "pro" series called the RS which was kinda OK for the time, but even then they were way down the list of what people wanted to use. They made some pretty decent Coaxial drivers and when put into a stage monitor they were pretty good. The mains were just so-so, and the subs were just not the greatest

I agree that the PAS subs aren't great. But they were free and served their purpose. One SRX being able to replace the 2 PAS subs is what I was hoping for. Normally I wouldn't hope to replace 2 lower end subs with a single higher end MI grade sub, but those PAS subs were pretty weak even 20 years ago when they were new. A clean 120dB from just 3ft away was a big ask for them...
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: Looking to upgrade my subs
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2019, 01:18:56 am »

Go for the powered.
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Matt Graumann

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Re: Looking to upgrade my subs
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2019, 11:44:29 am »

Throwing this out there (passive), these are NEW (even though the STX was discontinued a year or two ago), and they will sell them to you for $500 each, SHIPPED (I just got two more). 

Call them up and be nice...or, there is a listing by PSSL on FleaBay, too.  Make the offer, and buy them that way.   :D

I think they still have around 160+ in their warehouse.

JBL STX818s single 18" subwoofer  https://www.pssl.com/JBL-STX818S-18-Inch-Bass-Reflex-Subwoofer
« Last Edit: July 29, 2019, 11:47:35 am by Matt Graumann »
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Michael Storey

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Re: Looking to upgrade my subs
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2019, 01:20:14 pm »

Thanks for the responses! Would there be a noticeable advantage in getting the passive version and using my I-Techs over the powered version? I do have a second I-Tech for when I add more subs. I'm able to get the powered version the same price as the passive version, so I'm considering going that route so I can leave the amp rack behind unless there's a good reason to stick with the passive/I Techs.

One thing to note (since you desire more LF extension) ...

According to the spec sheets, the passive SRX 828S has a much higher -3dB point than it's powered sibling. I find it odd as the cabinets and drivers are mostly identical, but I spoke to a JBL tech about it and he seemed confident that the numbers were correct. It would seem to imply an exuberant amount of EQ was implemented in the powered version to get down to 35Hz, which doesn't seem practical.

SRX 828SP (Powered): Frequency Response (- 3dB): 35Hz - 120Hz
SRX 828S (Passive): Frequency Response (- 3dB): 47Hz -120Hz
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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: Looking to upgrade my subs
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2019, 01:33:26 pm »

One thing to note (since you desire more LF extension) ...

According to the spec sheets, the passive SRX 828S has a much higher -3dB point than it's powered sibling. I find it odd as the cabinets and drivers are mostly identical, but I spoke to a JBL tech about it and he seemed confident that the numbers were correct. It would seem to imply an exuberant amount of EQ was implemented in the powered version to get down to 35Hz, which doesn't seem practical.

SRX 828SP (Powered): Frequency Response (- 3dB): 35Hz - 120Hz
SRX 828S (Passive): Frequency Response (- 3dB): 47Hz -120Hz

It's almost certainly the case that EQ is applied, and probably quite a lot of it, too. Not a huge problem so long as the limiters are set sensibly.
If you were to do a set of measurement sweeps at increasing levels, I'd expect the bottom end to show limiting while the 60Hz+ range keeps getting louder.

It's not how I like my systems to work, but that's where JBL's engineers have decided to compromise.

Chris
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