ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Upgrading a Bar Band  (Read 796 times)

Rene Giust

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4
    • The Dogtones
Upgrading a Bar Band
« on: July 22, 2019, 06:30:53 pm »

I've searched numerous key word combos and read thru - sometimes more than once - the wealth of info here.  I looking to replace our audience facing speakers with a step up in sound quality.

Background: 
3 piece, Rock/Pop cover band (Yacht Rock to AC/DC)
  • Full drum kit w/ Roland SPD sampler used for 2-3 backing tracks + clap sounds (etc.)
  • electric with occasional acoustic guitar (if he brings it)
  • Bass guitar w/ occasional switching to or stabbing at keys on a few songs
  • all three of us sing

Current Stuff: 
We use two speaker configurations depending on the gig. 
Main PA:
  • 2 - RCF Art322a stick mounted to...
  • 2 - Mackie 1501 subs
  • Behringer XR18

...for tiny rooms or when we're told there's a "house" system:
  • 1 - QSC K10 on the floor
  • Behringer XR18 feeding their mains or not (prefer not)
Monitors:
  • 1 - QSC CP8
  • 1 - Mackie Thump12 (soon to be replaced with a CP8)
  • 1 - In ear setup
Venues: 
The venues vary from Restaurant bars, to small, narrow, neighborhood dive bars to "Wine" rooms that range in size from low ceiling basement living rooms to small, high ceiling warehouses to outdoor backyard or park settings. 

The main mix is primarily vocals, keys and the SPD always.  Sometimes we'll add guitars and on very rare occasions bass & two drum overhead mics.  When we use just the single K10 it's vocals only. 

We want to first replace the Art322's.  Although they sound pretty good, they're just too bulky & heavy (we're getting older).  Eventually, we also want (or will need) to replace the Mackie subs that are miraculously still working after 10 years and a couple of repairs and a speaker replacement.

We're (actually mostly just me) thinking several options:

Option 1:
Buy a used K10 to use along with the other K10 when you need a pair.  Stop thinking about improving the sound beyond that.  When the subs die, just buy something similar to replace.  A 1st gen K10 is lighter and smaller than the 322.  Least expensive option.

...or...

Option 2:
Step up a little.  Spend $1.2K - $2K for used pro(ish) gear like...
  • RCF TT08a
  • RCF TT052a
  • DB Tech IG2T
I'm leaning toward the first two on this list as of this post.
...or...

Option 3:
Step up a lot.  $2K - $3K for used pro gear like...
  • Meyer UPM-1P
  • Meyer UPJunior
  • Meyer UPJ-1P (although @ 46 lbs)
I appreciate older technology that works, but I wonder if the Meyer options listed are too application specific.
...or...

Option 4:
  • RCF Evox 8
  • ...or non-Bose varient
I'm liking this option the least.  One band member likes this option more.
...or...

Option...

We would really like powered, smaller, & lighter than what we currently have.  The K10 is about as heavy/bulky as we'd like to get. 

Thoughts & suggestions any of this welcome of course.
Logged

Sean Zurbrick

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 107
    • My band
Re: Upgrading a Bar Band
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2019, 07:17:22 pm »

If you're finding your current PA acceptable, SPL wise, but you're using "all she's got" most of the time, the Evox 8 would be a poor choice. It might work for small rooms, but just not robust enough to use as a one trick pony PA for full band. That said, the RCF Evox 12 would likely be a good option. Light, easy to transport, and a 15" sub and 4" drivers in the mains (the Evox 8 uses 2" driver). It would be a pretty elegant and easy solution and comparable in output to what you're running now.

If you want a step up in fidelity and output, you're going to be looking at at least comparable weight as the mains you have now and subs will be heading towards 100 lbs as well. One exception would be the RCF Art 745-A. It's around 41 lbs, so about 10 lbs lighter than what you have now. I ran those with my band for a few years and they are wonderful speakers. I LOVE the 650 Hz crossover point. BTW, I also owned 322As for several years.
Logged

Chris Grimshaw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1524
  • Sheffield, UK
    • Grimshaw Audio
Re: Upgrading a Bar Band
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2019, 03:51:24 am »

When it comes to the sound that's going out to the audience, remember that mics have as much of an effect as speakers. If you're still using SM58s, try auditioning Sennheiser e935s.


With regards to the PA system, I'd look at a good set of 8" mains over 12" subs. It'd be easy enough to do a staggered change, too - swap the tops and then the subs later.


With regards to the mix, I'd suggest putting E-GTR and kick through the PA at all times. In order:
- Guitar amps tend to be very directional in the mid-high range, so it's good to keep the amp's output restricted to on-stage monitoring levels and let the main PA (which will spread the sound out across the venue) do the heavy lifting.
- The kick drum is often the quietest part of the drum kit, and also the part that's most likely to get people dancing. That doesn't mean it should sound like a cannon going off every kick, but a bit of reinforcement at the bottom end is a useful thing to have.

My next preference would be to add toms and maybe snare (depending on the drummer and the snare they've picked).


Chris
Logged
Sheffield-based sound engineering.
www.grimshawaudio.com

Greg Harwood

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 63
Re: Upgrading a Bar Band
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2019, 09:23:38 am »

Maybe check out the new Yamaha DZR10 with the new 15" DXS15XLF matching subs.  Could be a nice compact light weight system.  I would imagine this would out perform you current rig and still be easy to manage.  If you want some killer smaller subs, take a look at JTR 212Pro.  I have 4 of them and they are awesome.

If you want to stay in the RCF range, but want lighter weight and more sound, I have a used pair of Art 522A if you're interested.  They are only 37lbs....very light and sound great.
Logged
Greg H.

Rene Giust

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4
    • The Dogtones
Re: Upgrading a Bar Band
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2019, 03:56:43 pm »

I've gone back and forth on Evox.  The last few years I don't think we get very loud, i.e. nothing has blown up.  (Knocking on wood.)

As with everything that's been mentioned, I'd love to be able to hear it first. 

(A little side story:  When we bought our current tops we went to every store in town and listened to all the usual MI stuff in stock.  It was all just ok. Meh.  There was a guy here in the Marketplace selling pair of RCF Art 322a, and he happened to be just a few minutes from my house.  We had never heard of RCF, but the second we heard the sound they made we bought them.  I remember one musician friend stopping in and saying, "...those are the best pair of Mackies he's ever heard.")

Our drummer switched over to an OM7 a while back to help with feedback and tame some of the drums coming through everywhere.  I wear in-ears, and it amazes me how much stuff comes thru the vocal mics.  Years ago we always mic'ed the drums regardless of room size.  After some experiments with mics and placement we found that two overhead mics on drums sounded best.  We recently discussed going back to that for at least the outdoor gigs.  If we bring subs we always mic the kick, otherwise not.  Some of the spaces we squeeze into are pretty small. 
Logged

Douglas R. Allen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1161
Re: Upgrading a Bar Band
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2019, 06:39:38 pm »

I have the Ingenia IG4T's and if the 2's are anything at all like the 4's then you should like them a lot. I think you'll find if you shop around the price your thinking it may cost you for used on the IG2T's may be closer to a new price. I'd post a (Thinking of buying IG2T's) add in the Marketplace here and see what you get for a price...  ;-)
There is some top notch dealers here and it would be well worth your time. Regardless of the speaker you decide to purchase

Douglas R. Allen


Logged

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Upgrading a Bar Band
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2019, 06:39:38 pm »


Pages: [1]   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.057 seconds with 25 queries.