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Author Topic: Wireless drums?  (Read 2871 times)

Rodrigo C Goncalves

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Re: Wireless drums?
« Reply #50 on: July 01, 2019, 10:36:14 pm »

So!
I've made my decision. I'm going with the Soundcraft. Should be getting it in the next month or so.
Now, the next step is the rack case, and what else I should put in there, I kinda brushed on this before.
An often overlooked part but one that's absolutely crucial, is a power unit, right?
So, I look at Furman units.
I was used to seeing the ones with the american plugs in the back so the IEC ones confused me a little bit, but I now see how this is actually BETTER.
Now, the real question in my mind is...

Looking at the options on Thomann.de, there's quite a few Furmans.

The two I have in front of me here are:
https://www.thomann.de/gb/furman_m10x_e.htm
https://www.thomann.de/gb/furman_plpro_dmc_e.htm

Both of them have 10 outlets at the back and one on the front.
But, the more expensive one has:
- Front USB charging port
- Pull-out lights
- Resets per bank of 5 instead of one reset for all 10
- Voltage indicator
- Dimmer

Now, these features are all 100% convenience, right? Both units will provide clean, safe, gear-life-extending power.
One gig we did, the power installation was so bad that we had to use the iPad on battery power because when plugged in it'd hum like a MOFO.

Now, I'm pretty sure I'm missing something, because the price difference of FIVE TIMES more between them, can definitely not be justified by the convenience features alone.
Is the expensive one worth it? Do I need it?

Then all in all, the rack is looking like it'll be an 8U wheeled gator case.
Soundcraft 4U
Power conditioner 1U
An actual outlets rack unit like this 1U
And a drawer for storage, or maybe just blanks 2U

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 10:41:50 pm by Rodrigo C Goncalves »
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Wireless drums?
« Reply #51 on: July 02, 2019, 05:03:07 am »

So!
I've made my decision. I'm going with the Soundcraft. Should be getting it in the next month or so.
Now, the next step is the rack case, and what else I should put in there, I kinda brushed on this before.
An often overlooked part but one that's absolutely crucial, is a power unit, right?
So, I look at Furman units.
I was used to seeing the ones with the american plugs in the back so the IEC ones confused me a little bit, but I now see how this is actually BETTER.
Now, the real question in my mind is...

Looking at the options on Thomann.de, there's quite a few Furmans.

The two I have in front of me here are:
https://www.thomann.de/gb/furman_m10x_e.htm
https://www.thomann.de/gb/furman_plpro_dmc_e.htm

Both of them have 10 outlets at the back and one on the front.
But, the more expensive one has:
- Front USB charging port
- Pull-out lights
- Resets per bank of 5 instead of one reset for all 10
- Voltage indicator
- Dimmer

Now, these features are all 100% convenience, right? Both units will provide clean, safe, gear-life-extending power.
One gig we did, the power installation was so bad that we had to use the iPad on battery power because when plugged in it'd hum like a MOFO.

Now, I'm pretty sure I'm missing something, because the price difference of FIVE TIMES more between them, can definitely not be justified by the convenience features alone.
Is the expensive one worth it? Do I need it?

Then all in all, the rack is looking like it'll be an 8U wheeled gator case.
Soundcraft 4U
Power conditioner 1U
An actual outlets rack unit like this 1U
And a drawer for storage, or maybe just blanks 2U

Thoughts?

Quote
Now, these features are all 100% convenience, right? Both units will provide clean, safe, gear-life-extending power.
One gig we did, the power installation was so bad that we had to use the iPad on battery power because when plugged in it'd hum like a MOFO.

Come on you said you went to engineering school, these things provide extra margin to the dealer while providing no more protection than a $2.00 surge suppressor.  They may filter a little bit of noise.

You need to put a small, high quality UPS in the rack to achieve your goals.

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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Wireless drums?
« Reply #52 on: July 02, 2019, 08:51:50 am »

Most "power conditioners" are not.  They are MOV-based surge protectors built into a rack mount power bar.  They provide convenience and a modicum of surge protection but that is all... and that may be all you need.

I suggest an uninterruptible power supply like for a computer or office equipment.
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: Wireless drums?
« Reply #53 on: July 02, 2019, 12:38:46 pm »

Forget the Furman.
Absolutely add a UPS.
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Rodrigo C Goncalves

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Re: Wireless drums?
« Reply #54 on: July 02, 2019, 04:56:07 pm »

Come on you said you went to engineering school, these things provide extra margin to the dealer while providing no more protection than a $2.00 surge suppressor.  They may filter a little bit of noise.

You need to put a small, high quality UPS in the rack to achieve your goals.

I did!!! But I'm biased because Berklee was insane with the level of gear they had. It was all thousands and thousands of outboard gear. Including the very expensive Furman units...

But this is the other side of it. Live sound, which means a LOT of more risks come into play, including damaging the gear cuz it'll get transported so much.

I did think about an UPS.
Looking into that now.

You guys are awesome!
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Wireless drums?
« Reply #55 on: July 02, 2019, 11:49:05 pm »

I did!!! But I'm biased because Berklee was insane with the level of gear they had. It was all thousands and thousands of outboard gear. Including the very expensive Furman units...

But this is the other side of it. Live sound, which means a LOT of more risks come into play, including damaging the gear cuz it'll get transported so much.

I did think about an UPS.
Looking into that now.

You guys are awesome!

I have no doubt that Berklee spent a whole lot of money on gear that spec'd by a vendor and that power conditioner was .0005% of the purchase price so nobody cared.

Now that we have to be stewards of our own resources we need to be a bit more selective.  If I see an FOH rack with a UPS it elevates my opinion of the operator, a Furman does the opposite.  A well thought out integrated distro/break out panel is a similar benefit.  JBL doesn't put them in zillion dollar power and processing racks!

Glad you are having fun here.  You have been a good sport to the chop busting. 
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Wireless drums?
« Reply #56 on: July 03, 2019, 12:23:23 pm »

I have no doubt that Berklee spent a whole lot of money on gear that spec'd by a vendor and that power conditioner was .0005% of the purchase price so nobody cared.

Now that we have to be stewards of our own resources we need to be a bit more selective.  If I see an FOH rack with a UPS it elevates my opinion of the operator, a Furman does the opposite.  A well thought out integrated distro/break out panel is a similar benefit.  JBL doesn't put them in zillion dollar power and processing racks!

Glad you are having fun here.  You have been a good sport to the chop busting.

Furman, Mackie, most of the other successful marketers of power or audio products (Crown's trumpeting of damping factor, etc) got their market share by getting buyers to believe there was some "secret sauce" somewhere.  You can't see it, you can't taste it, you can't hear it... but it's there according to the marketing spin.  "Power conditioner" would seem to indicate the need for "power shampoo".  Lather, rinse, repeat.

If one operates in environments where voltage surges are common, possibly a better choice of product would come from SurgeX.
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lindsay Dean

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Re: Wireless drums?
« Reply #57 on: July 03, 2019, 01:48:10 pm »

I realize I'm a little late to the party on the miking up drums question ..........have you checked out the new Yamaha module that goes on the bass drum and covers all the other drums.
    you can set midi signals, you can mix your own drums, you can use samples it's a pretty cool deal for under $600 and sounds great
« Last Edit: July 03, 2019, 01:51:06 pm by lindsay Dean »
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Tim Weaver

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Re: Wireless drums?
« Reply #58 on: July 03, 2019, 02:39:29 pm »

Admittedly I just skimmed this whole thread, but I'll jump in here because I don't think anyone mentioned this piece of kit to you:

http://whirlwindusa.com/media/uploads/drumdrop_600w.jpg

You can get this without the multipin part which I would recommend. That adds cost and complexity to a setup that at your level you just don't need.

Take this drum drop, label each xlr with the corresponding drum mic and it takes about 30 seconds to plug it all in. Get LP rim mounts for you mics (I prefer LP claws) and there you go. Drums don't take long at all if you just do a little pregaming with the labels and stuff.


BTW, you could go wireless at GREAT expense and then you'll spend all that time you saved trying to get all your wireless stuff talking to each other without interference. AND you'll spend a ton of dough on batteries. AND it'll sound like crap on drums because of the compander. AND you'll just go back to xlr eventually anyway.
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Tim Weaver

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Re: Wireless drums?
« Reply #59 on: July 03, 2019, 02:46:58 pm »

I did things a little different when I was running my own soundco. I built 2 Three channel subsnakes with long fans on the female end. One hit the kick, snare, an hat and the other hit 2 racks and a floor. Most club gigs don't need overheads, but if you insist on using them I just used mic cable and home ran those. If the drumset was a 4 piece I would use one of the Tom lines for a close-in ride mic.

These 3 channel snakes were about 20 feet long and wrapped around to the 12 channel sub snake that I would drop somewhere close to the drum set. So 6 or 8 of the channels were drums, then that left me 6 or 4 channels to catch the bass, keys, guitars, nose flute, whatever....


Use subsnakes and shorter xlr, and your life will be much easier.


P.S. when you build things yourself you can get fancy and color-code wires and/or use right angle XLR where needed.
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Re: Wireless drums?
« Reply #59 on: July 03, 2019, 02:46:58 pm »


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